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There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. Intro'
From: <tmautla@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
2. Re: RE: Welcome
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
3. Re: Intro'
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
4. FW: FW: The power of prayer -Forwarded
From: <tmautla@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
5. Re: RE: Welcome
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
6. Adventist World News Update
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
7. Re: Fw: Wearing of Jewellery!
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
8. Re: Intro'
From: "Thabo Nale" <nalet@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxx.xx.xxx
9. Re: Intro'
From: <tmautla@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
10. FW: Friends
From: <tmautla@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
11. FW: FRIENDS
From: <tmautla@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
12. FW: Beautiful!!!
From: <tmautla@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
13. Introduction
From: Fairbridge Dlamini <dlaminif@xxxx.xx.xxx
14. Re: Introduction
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
15. Re: Fw: Wearing of Jewellery!
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@xxxx.xx.xxx
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:23:43 +0200
From: <tmautla@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Intro'
My name is Thabitha Dorcas Mathapelo Mautla - (Mautla is my surname).
I work for Edgars Headquarters ( Edgardale) in Crown Mines - as a Garment
Technologist (Quality Assurance Dept).
I did my high school at Good Hope High School (SDA) in Cape Town, came back to
Wits at did my N.Dipl. Production Management.
I am a born Adventist - my Father is Adventist Pastor.
Well I guess if anyone needs to know more - ask.
I am very happy to be in this mailing list and I know we are going to learn alot
from each other.
Here is a thought for the day: - TOUGH TIMES NEVER LAST, BUT TOUGH PEOPLE DO.
- BE KIND TO OTHERS
YOU MAY NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH.
Thabitha Mautla
Tel: 495 7787
Fax: 495 7756
Cell: 083 320 4530
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:30:58 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: RE: Welcome
Lungani,
When I read some of the church history books, it seems like that's what her contemporaries called her, at least in the late 1890's and early 1900.
Peace!
Jeremiah
>>> "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za> 08/16 2:13 AM >>>
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
** Proprietary **
** Reply Requested When Convenient **
Jerry,
"Mother White"? Did I read that right? "Mother White"
Lungani
>>> Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com> 08/16 4:43 AM >>>
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
Jongimpi,
I fully agree with you, we need more crusaders than crusades. If we
look at the early church we see they didn't wait until they have R50
000,00 before they could preach the gospel. The whole church was
involved in gossiping about the man who died and rose up from the
grave. To them it was such an exciting story they just couldn't stop
telling others about it, so from house to house and from village to
village they spread this gossip about the man called Jesus. The
preaching of Jesus and Him crucified was the highest priority in
their lives. Their lives revolved around evangelism
Why is our church not following the same example of the early church
believers? I would like to suggest two reasons.
1. The majority of those who are members of the church do not know
why they are in the church.
2. The division between the lay-members and the professional members
(pastors).
Let me now elaborate: The majority of those who are members of the
church do not know who Jesus is, in fact I believe that the failure
to understand Christ and what he stands for might be the reason why
the churches are full today. Many people don't know why they are in
the church, if you don't believe me, the following Sabbath ask the
members of your local congregation why are they in the church and you
will find interesting answers.
To become a Christian is to enlist in the army of Christ, it is to be
a soldier, and the duty of the soldier is to fight.
Many of us are like the majority of those who joined Gideon's army.
They joined the army, yet they were not ready to fight. Gideon sent
they home, and some times I think we can do better with a lean army.
I believe that many of us came with the idea of been soldiers but
after some time we became disillusioned and we have forgotten what we
are here for.
If Christ has done something for you, you can't keep quite, even
those that Christ told them not to tell anybody they just couldn't
help it; they had to tell somebody about it.
The question is, has Christ done (is doing) anything for us? Remember
a Christian who is not sharing the good news is like the Dead Sea,
dead! Sharing the good is the only way a Christian is going to
survive.
What can we do? We need a revival, as mother White says this is the
greatest and most urgent of all our needs. After the revival (change
of heart) them the reformation (change of the ways) will follow.
Mother White tells us that there is a repentance that needs
repentance there of.
A woman once asked a great preacher what she could do to maintain the
joy and happiness in the Lord. And the preacher said to her: "Every
day you need to spend 15 minutes talking to the Lord (in prayer), 15
minutes when the Lord is talking to you (reading the word) and 15
minutes of talking to others about the Lord (spreading the good
news)."
We all need to remember this every day.
2. The division between the lay-members and the professional members
(pastors).
Many of our members think that evangelism is the duty of the pastor
and conference evangelists. I wonder if we can blame them, after all
they are called lay-people, which means that they are not
professionals in this field. As much I might be a professional in the
field of milking cows, I am a lay man in field of the medicine or
law. This lay/professional mentality seems to be standing on the way
of evangelism. What I can I do? I am just a lay person; I will wait
for a professional. Unfortunately even some of these professional
really believe in this lay/professional business, because some really
get disturbed when lay people seem to be doing their work.
These divisions were not there in the early church, all the people
were under the same group called the laios (I speak no Greek) or the
people of God. Ministering was a role that people performed but it
was not a grouping of people. They all had a responsibility to spread
the gospel; even the deacons could baptize (Phillip).
If we are to have any success in evangelism we will need to address
this issue, by the way, this division came into the church during the
dark ages. A well documented research was done by Andrews University
that show that places where there is high pastor/member ratio the
church is growing much faster than were there is a low pastor/member
ratio. For example in Europe, where the pastor/ member ratio is 1 to
45 the church growth is -1 and in Latin America where the ratio is 1
to 600 the church growth 17%.
Isn't strange that we often say we need more ministers, maybe we need
fewer ministers.
Our churches in Latin America and some parts of Africa have already
found out this secret and their churches are growing like wild fire.
The lay people are trained and they perform the roles which are
traditional performed by pastors and the churches are prospering.
Mother White said this work is going to be finished by lay-people and
the ministers together.
I am happy to see that our Kwa-natal-free-state conference seem to be
going towards this direction by enlisting the services of some lay
people in doing the work traditionally done by pastors.
Work for the night is coming!
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
--- Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za> wrote:
> From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
>
> I find your illustration very interesting and not amusing for it
> is true.
> Crusades are for people who are hungry and unemployed. Our church
> seems to
> specialise in reaching or targeting those who stay in shacks or
> temporal
> shelters. What about the rich and affluent how do we reach them?
>
> Should we run an anti-rich programme for them or how to be
> unemployed?
> Remember the Young rich ruler who approached Christ? He was told
> to get rid
> of his possession and follow Christ. Difficult, yes even more
> difficult
> than to reach poor people.
>
> What is the solution? The problem is that crusades are done by
> specialists, and yet I read from the Bible that everyone is
> supposed to be a
> witness. Let all our members be trained and encouraged to
> evangelise.
> Let us find new ways of sharing our faith. We should find it easy
> to talk
> about what Christ is doing in our lives before we can tell people
> what he
> wants from their lives.
> "When they see your good deeds they will glorify Him".
>
> Maybe we do not need more crusades, we need more Crusaders!
>
> Peace!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Modise <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
> To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
> Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: RE: [sa-sda] Welcome
>
>
> >From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
> >
> >Sam,
> >
> >The solution to the riddle is to find out why people don't attend
> the
> >crusades. The problem is that our ministry is often times not
> needs
> >based. For example, out tendency is to identify "unentered areas"
> and
> >put up a tent for a crusade. This is most of the time not based on
> a
> >proper needs analysis, in your field it would be a due diligence
> >report. Some of the people you invite to the crusade would like
> to
> >attend the but have more pressing needs like putting food on the
> table
> >for their children. I can imagine that some of them are perhaps
> >wondering why we are not following the example of Jesus. Christ
> >addressed the basic needs of people first. Perhaps we need to
> think of
> >anti-poverty, anti-crime, counselling, skills development and job
> >creation programmes before we talk of crusades. Our needs are not
> >necessarily other people's needs. The art of fishing depends
> critically
> >on understanding the environment, behaviour and the type of fish
> you are
> >trying to catch, that will inform you as to what kind of bait to
> use and
> >when to throw the fishing rod into the water. We need to see human
> >beings (God's children) first before we can see targets for
> baptism
> >(statistics)!!!!
> >
> >The beauty of the above is that it fully complements "seek ye
> first the
> >kingdom of God and all else will be added unto you". More of that
> later
> >if you are interested!!!!
> >
> >God bless
> >
> >Andrew Modise
> >
> >
> >>>> "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu> 08/10/99 04:07PM >>>
> >From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
> >
> >Sam,
> >What do you mean by infiltrating their churches?
> >You mean you will pretend to be their member? Sing as they sing,
> dance
> >as they do?
> >Won't it be living a lie? fooling them by pretending to be one of
> >them?
> >Here is the great philosophical question: Is it right to fool
> people
> >for their own good?
> >
> >Peace!
> >
> >Jeremiah
> >
> >>>> Sam Mthimkulu <Sammth@tnt.ac.za> 08/10 2:59 AM >>>
> >Greetings
> >
> >I would like to appreciate the opportunity given to us to share
> >whatever
> >news or opinions we have without censorship.
> >Introducing Samuel Molefe Mthunzi Mthimkhulu,known as Sam,i grew
> up in
> >Tornado NW and moved to Pretoria in '90 and studied at TNT,I am
> >currently working at the same company from 95 till today working
> as
> >the
> >Internal Auditor.i am unmarried(soon my status will change pray
> for
> >me)my interest are evangelism,social discussion.
> >I want to share something with you that is bothering me for we
> have
> >crusades and people do not attend i was thinking what about
> >infiltration
> >to this churches?i hope you will help.
> >May God bless you
> >
> >Mthunzi
> >
> >
> >
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_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:43:51 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Subject: Re: Intro'
Welcome Thabitha,
It is good to see that the news about this list is spreading around.
Congratulation, you are now part of the SA-SDA cyber family, once more welcome!
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
>>> <tmautla@edgars.co.za> 08/16 8:23 AM >>>
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
My name is Thabitha Dorcas Mathapelo Mautla - (Mautla is my surname).
I work for Edgars Headquarters ( Edgardale) in Crown Mines - as a Garment
Technologist (Quality Assurance Dept).
I did my high school at Good Hope High School (SDA) in Cape Town, came back to
Wits at did my N.Dipl. Production Management.
I am a born Adventist - my Father is Adventist Pastor.
Well I guess if anyone needs to know more - ask.
I am very happy to be in this mailing list and I know we are going to learn alot
from each other.
Here is a thought for the day: - TOUGH TIMES NEVER LAST, BUT TOUGH PEOPLE DO.
- BE KIND TO OTHERS
YOU MAY NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH.
Thabitha Mautla
Tel: 495 7787
Fax: 495 7756
Cell: 083 320 4530
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
The King is even at the door!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:45:43 +0200
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
Subject: FW: FW: The power of prayer -Forwarded
---------------------- Forwarded by Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA on 08/16/99 03:51
PM ---------------------------
Dinah Maloka
08/16/99 10:54 AM
To: Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA@Edgars, Ronald Mosiane/Edgars/ZA@EDGARS, Fiona
Tshabalala/Edgars/ZA@EDGARS, Elsinah Nkosi/Edgars/ZA@EDGARS,
lawrencen@safcor.co.za, portiat@gallo.co.za, Amanda
Hoffmann/Edgars/ZA@EDGARS
cc:
Subject: FW: FW: The power of prayer -Forwarded
---------------------- Forwarded by Dinah Maloka/Edgars/ZA on 08/16/99 11:59 AM
---------------------------
Portia Tshabalala <portiat@gallo.co.za> on 08/13/99 01:12:14 PM
To: Berlinda Prins <BerlindaP@gallo.co.za>, Maria Maphanga
<mariam@gallo.co.za>, Dinah Maloka/Edgars/ZA@EDGARS,
knkosi@haggierand.co.za
cc:
Subject: FW: FW: The power of prayer -Forwarded
----------
From: Thuli Nkosi [SMTP:thulin@ndi.org.za]
Sent: 13 August 1999 10:34
To: portiat@gallo.co.za
Subject: Fwd: FW: The power of prayer -Forwarded
>X-From_: urshula@ndi.org.za Wed Aug 11 15:41:18 1999
>Return-path: <urshula@ndi.org.za>
>Envelope-to: thulin@relay01.iafrica.com
>Delivery-date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:41:18 +0200
>X-Sender: urshula@jhbpop01.iafrica.com
>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:32:57 -0500
>To: valma@ndi.org.za,thulin@ndi.org.za,patriciam@ndi.org.za,
>
lesleys@ndi.org.za,rrabo@ndi.org.za,isaache@ey.co.za,laurieb@sba.pdx.edu
>From: Urshula Lottering <urshula@ndi.org.za>
>Subject: Fwd: FW: The power of prayer -Forwarded
>
>>X-From_: BosogaW@elections.org.za Wed Aug 11 14:44:19
1999
>>Envelope-to: urshula@relay01.iafrica.com
>>From: "Bosoga, Wendy" <BosogaW@elections.org.za>
>>To: "'urshula@ndi.org.za'" <urshula@ndi.org.za>
>>Subject: FW: The power of prayer -Forwarded
>>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:10:50 +0200
>>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dlozi, Phindi
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 13:47
>>> To: Bosoga, Wendy; Buthelezi, Wandi;
Dhlamini, Lorraine; Ditshwene,
>>> Dora; Radebe, Fikile
>>> Subject: FW: The power of prayer
-Forwarded
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> From: Seapei
Mafoyane[SMTP:962063440@students.unp.ac.za]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 11:31
>>> To: dlozip@elections.org.za
>>> Subject: Fwd: FW: FW: The power of prayer
-Forwarded
>>>
>>> <<Fwd: FW: FW: The power of prayer>>
>>>
>>>
>>From: Nomathemba Ngoma <952031907@students.unp.ac.za>
>>To: 952009732@students.unp.ac.za,
952038805@students.unp.ac.za,
>> 962063440@students.unp.ac.za,
>>
UNPSTUDENTS.ext#c#unilever.com#c#Alistair#c#Mokoena@students.unp.ac.za
>>Subject: Fwd: FW: FW: The power of prayer
>>Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:11:00 +0200
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
>>Content-Type: message/rfc822
>>
>>Message-ID:
<ISSMTP.2000_31_.19990724112734.213A@unilever.com>
>>From: "Nomahlubi.N.Ngoma"
<Nomahlubi.N.Ngoma@unilever.com>
>>To: "Msimang, Busi" <Busi.Msimang@unilever.com>,
nkuli
>> <952031907@students.unp.ac.za>, "Singh, Sherini"
>> <Sherini.Singh@unilever.com>
>>Subject: FW: FW: The power of prayer
>>Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:27:34 +0200
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0)
>>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>> boundary="----_=_NextPart_004_01BEE3F8.18A03660"
>>
>>
>>
>>> <<thepow~2_.doc>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:18:10 +0200
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
Subject: Re: RE: Welcome
** Proprietary **
** Reply Requested When Convenient **
Jerry,
Thanks for getting back to me so soon. I actually frowned at the
expression because it demands the response. You know when you use such
an expression you actually make me think of people like Mother Terissa.
There was nothing wrong with her ministry while still living - but as
you may know the trouble is with the recommendation than she has to be
saint. I hope we will not be using the same expression for Mrs White.
I hope all will be well - with Mrs. White in her tomb - she is not to
be glorified because she was just a vessel to be used and not a mini God
or goddess.
I know he is at the door.
Lungani
>>> "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu> 08/16 2:30 PM >>>
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Lungani,
When I read some of the church history books, it seems like that's what
her contemporaries called her, at least in the late 1890's and early
1900.
Peace!
Jeremiah
>>> "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za> 08/16 2:13 AM >>>
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
** Proprietary **
** Reply Requested When Convenient **
Jerry,
"Mother White"? Did I read that right? "Mother White"
Lungani
>>> Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com> 08/16 4:43 AM >>>
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
Jongimpi,
I fully agree with you, we need more crusaders than crusades. If we
look at the early church we see they didn't wait until they have R50
000,00 before they could preach the gospel. The whole church was
involved in gossiping about the man who died and rose up from the
grave. To them it was such an exciting story they just couldn't stop
telling others about it, so from house to house and from village to
village they spread this gossip about the man called Jesus. The
preaching of Jesus and Him crucified was the highest priority in
their lives. Their lives revolved around evangelism
Why is our church not following the same example of the early church
believers? I would like to suggest two reasons.
1. The majority of those who are members of the church do not know
why they are in the church.
2. The division between the lay-members and the professional members
(pastors).
Let me now elaborate: The majority of those who are members of the
church do not know who Jesus is, in fact I believe that the failure
to understand Christ and what he stands for might be the reason why
the churches are full today. Many people don't know why they are in
the church, if you don't believe me, the following Sabbath ask the
members of your local congregation why are they in the church and you
will find interesting answers.
To become a Christian is to enlist in the army of Christ, it is to be
a soldier, and the duty of the soldier is to fight.
Many of us are like the majority of those who joined Gideon's army.
They joined the army, yet they were not ready to fight. Gideon sent
they home, and some times I think we can do better with a lean army.
I believe that many of us came with the idea of been soldiers but
after some time we became disillusioned and we have forgotten what we
are here for.
If Christ has done something for you, you can't keep quite, even
those that Christ told them not to tell anybody they just couldn't
help it; they had to tell somebody about it.
The question is, has Christ done (is doing) anything for us? Remember
a Christian who is not sharing the good news is like the Dead Sea,
dead! Sharing the good is the only way a Christian is going to
survive.
What can we do? We need a revival, as mother White says this is the
greatest and most urgent of all our needs. After the revival (change
of heart) them the reformation (change of the ways) will follow.
Mother White tells us that there is a repentance that needs
repentance there of.
A woman once asked a great preacher what she could do to maintain the
joy and happiness in the Lord. And the preacher said to her: "Every
day you need to spend 15 minutes talking to the Lord (in prayer), 15
minutes when the Lord is talking to you (reading the word) and 15
minutes of talking to others about the Lord (spreading the good
news)."
We all need to remember this every day.
2. The division between the lay-members and the professional members
(pastors).
Many of our members think that evangelism is the duty of the pastor
and conference evangelists. I wonder if we can blame them, after all
they are called lay-people, which means that they are not
professionals in this field. As much I might be a professional in the
field of milking cows, I am a lay man in field of the medicine or
law. This lay/professional mentality seems to be standing on the way
of evangelism. What I can I do? I am just a lay person; I will wait
for a professional. Unfortunately even some of these professional
really believe in this lay/professional business, because some really
get disturbed when lay people seem to be doing their work.
These divisions were not there in the early church, all the people
were under the same group called the laios (I speak no Greek) or the
people of God. Ministering was a role that people performed but it
was not a grouping of people. They all had a responsibility to spread
the gospel; even the deacons could baptize (Phillip).
If we are to have any success in evangelism we will need to address
this issue, by the way, this division came into the church during the
dark ages. A well documented research was done by Andrews University
that show that places where there is high pastor/member ratio the
church is growing much faster than were there is a low pastor/member
ratio. For example in Europe, where the pastor/ member ratio is 1 to
45 the church growth is -1 and in Latin America where the ratio is 1
to 600 the church growth 17%.
Isn't strange that we often say we need more ministers, maybe we need
fewer ministers.
Our churches in Latin America and some parts of Africa have already
found out this secret and their churches are growing like wild fire.
The lay people are trained and they perform the roles which are
traditional performed by pastors and the churches are prospering.
Mother White said this work is going to be finished by lay-people and
the ministers together.
I am happy to see that our Kwa-natal-free-state conference seem to be
going towards this direction by enlisting the services of some lay
people in doing the work traditionally done by pastors.
Work for the night is coming!
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
--- Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za> wrote:
> From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
>
> I find your illustration very interesting and not amusing for it
> is true.
> Crusades are for people who are hungry and unemployed. Our church
> seems to
> specialise in reaching or targeting those who stay in shacks or
> temporal
> shelters. What about the rich and affluent how do we reach them?
>
> Should we run an anti-rich programme for them or how to be
> unemployed?
> Remember the Young rich ruler who approached Christ? He was told
> to get rid
> of his possession and follow Christ. Difficult, yes even more
> difficult
> than to reach poor people.
>
> What is the solution? The problem is that crusades are done by
> specialists, and yet I read from the Bible that everyone is
> supposed to be a
> witness. Let all our members be trained and encouraged to
> evangelise.
> Let us find new ways of sharing our faith. We should find it easy
> to talk
> about what Christ is doing in our lives before we can tell people
> what he
> wants from their lives.
> "When they see your good deeds they will glorify Him".
>
> Maybe we do not need more crusades, we need more Crusaders!
>
> Peace!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Modise <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
> To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
> Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: RE: [sa-sda] Welcome
>
>
> >From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
> >
> >Sam,
> >
> >The solution to the riddle is to find out why people don't attend
> the
> >crusades. The problem is that our ministry is often times not
> needs
> >based. For example, out tendency is to identify "unentered areas"
> and
> >put up a tent for a crusade. This is most of the time not based on
> a
> >proper needs analysis, in your field it would be a due diligence
> >report. Some of the people you invite to the crusade would like
> to
> >attend the but have more pressing needs like putting food on the
> table
> >for their children. I can imagine that some of them are perhaps
> >wondering why we are not following the example of Jesus. Christ
> >addressed the basic needs of people first. Perhaps we need to
> think of
> >anti-poverty, anti-crime, counselling, skills development and job
> >creation programmes before we talk of crusades. Our needs are not
> >necessarily other people's needs. The art of fishing depends
> critically
> >on understanding the environment, behaviour and the type of fish
> you are
> >trying to catch, that will inform you as to what kind of bait to
> use and
> >when to throw the fishing rod into the water. We need to see human
> >beings (God's children) first before we can see targets for
> baptism
> >(statistics)!!!!
> >
> >The beauty of the above is that it fully complements "seek ye
> first the
> >kingdom of God and all else will be added unto you". More of that
> later
> >if you are interested!!!!
> >
> >God bless
> >
> >Andrew Modise
> >
> >
> >>>> "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu> 08/10/99 04:07PM >>>
> >From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
> >
> >Sam,
> >What do you mean by infiltrating their churches?
> >You mean you will pretend to be their member? Sing as they sing,
> dance
> >as they do?
> >Won't it be living a lie? fooling them by pretending to be one of
> >them?
> >Here is the great philosophical question: Is it right to fool
> people
> >for their own good?
> >
> >Peace!
> >
> >Jeremiah
> >
> >>>> Sam Mthimkulu <Sammth@tnt.ac.za> 08/10 2:59 AM >>>
> >Greetings
> >
> >I would like to appreciate the opportunity given to us to share
> >whatever
> >news or opinions we have without censorship.
> >Introducing Samuel Molefe Mthunzi Mthimkhulu,known as Sam,i grew
> up in
> >Tornado NW and moved to Pretoria in '90 and studied at TNT,I am
> >currently working at the same company from 95 till today working
> as
> >the
> >Internal Auditor.i am unmarried(soon my status will change pray
> for
> >me)my interest are evangelism,social discussion.
> >I want to share something with you that is bothering me for we
> have
> >crusades and people do not attend i was thinking what about
> >infiltration
> >to this churches?i hope you will help.
> >May God bless you
> >
> >Mthunzi
> >
> >
> >
> >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> >----------------------------
> >
> >ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests.
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >The King is even at the door!
> >
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>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >The King is even at the door!
>
>
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:37:10 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Subject: Adventist World News Update
Adventist World News Update
Collected from the WWW
Healthiest group in USA
"The Saturday Evening Post" has called Seventh-day Adventists "the healthiest group of people in the country." "Adventists have supplied the world with some rather impressive medical statistics," the popular magazine said. "Male Seventh-day Adventists aged 35 to 40 have a 6.2-year longer life expectancy on the average than the general population. Female members have a 3.1- year greater life expectancy. Male subjects 55 and over who eat meat six times a week or more are twice as likely to die of heart attacks as are some of the Adventist vegetarian men, as shown by surveys. Not only do Seventh-day Adventists have fewer heart attacks, they also have less cancer -- 50 percent less than the general population. Their rate of lung cancer is only 21 percent of the expected rate and their colon-rectal cancer is 60 percent of expected. Education-medical as well as general-receives strong support from Adventists. Three times as many members have completed college compared to the general population," the Post says.
Statistics show rapid growth
Statistics just released show the ratio of Adventists to non-Adventists is dropping sharply world-wide. In 1994 there was one Adventist for every 669 people on the planet. Five years later, according to the latest statistics, this figure had dropped to one in 583. The statistics also show a dramatic increase in the number of baptisms per hour. Five years ago there were 71.8 baptisms and confessions of faith every hour. Last year, this had increased dramatically to 93.4 every hour. Projections suggest that this year we are probably having about 100 baptisms every hour.
Jailed pastor requested prison change
An Adventist pastor/educator jailed in Sri Lanka asked to be transferred to another jail so he could evangelise prisoners more effectively. Pastor Anthony Alexander, from the Tamil race, was in a jail with only 26 Tamil prisoners. "On my request I was transferred to this new prison where more than 800 Tamil political prisoners are imprisoned," he wrote from jail. "The reason for my request was to do some work with my net and bait. Now I can really feel the importance of the commission stated in Matthew 25:36. The thirst for the living water is inexpressible. I am busy as never before, giving Bible studies and worshiping with them. I have to preach both on Sundays and Sabbath days and the other days teach them Bible, English and electronics. Many have accepted Christ as their personal Saviour. How3ever, some don't come to the worship room because of fear, though some come boldly. I have been already threatened to death by some Tamil liberation fighters, because of the conversion of their fellow cadres, knowing that these new-born children of God will never take weapons in their hands," he wrote. Adventists world-wide are writing to him to encourage him, and he appreciates it. His address is Pastor M A Alexander 2476, "B" Ward, New Remand Prison, Kalutara North, Kalutara, Sri Lanka. The General Conference Religious Liberty Department has prepared three different form letters you could use if you want to write to help free Pastor Alexander.
Almost a million pages requested
TAGnet, the Adventist "mother of all websites" was only 2000 hits less than a million hits last week. The Adventist websites housed by TAGnet had an incredible 998,114 pages requested last week. Adventist.fm was the number one website of more than 1000 on TAGnet, with Adventist TV 3ABN number two. TAGnet itself is number three. It is sporting a brand new look which combines TAGnet and the search engine SDAsource.
Our web site (Masabatha Online) is also hosted at TAGnet.
Lawsuit against Florida church
A court case is scheduled for mid October against a Florida church using the name Seventh-day Adventist. The church is called to the "Eternal Gospel Church of Seventh-day Adventists" in West Palm Beach, Florida. The church placed an advertisement this week in "USA Today," using the name the "Eternal Gospel Church of Seventh-day Adventists."
MJ Ravhengani
SA-SDA/Masabatha Online
www.masabatha.org
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:24:32 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw: Wearing of Jewellery!
Jongimpi,
I see the point you are making; to me it is similar to what Christ was talking about when He spoke about letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
Some times we emphasize the periphery and end losing the real point. In my view Peter is addressing the question of adornment. The point that I see him making is that what attracts people to us should not be how we look on the outside but Christ who is in the inside. After people have met Jeremiah what do they remember about him? Is he the young man with a fancy car, a young man who wears suits with big labels, or they only remember his Christ-like words/love and caring? The question is what attracts people to you? A fellow that I knew very well once told me that he has two girl friends and his car has six. Obviously he was not a Christian but I hope it does serve to make a point.
What if there is no Christ in the inside? In the paper that I wrote few years ago on the subject of Jewelry and Adventism (Presented at SDASA Dec 1992) there is story of a woman who specializes in marketing jewelry, she is quoted as saying that jewelry helps people who have low self esteem to feel better about themselves.
When there is nothing in the inside, we try to compensate by hanging some things on the outside. When there is nothing in the inside we try to put something expensive on the outside to try to get some attention.
As if that is not enough, some of the ladies are finding out that expensive clothes and jewelry are not helping them, now leave their bodies outside the clothes. Even that does not help since only Jesus can satisfy.
Yes, it seems like we are having double standards since we do not allow members to wear jewelry whereas they are allowed to wear fine clothes. This is the same question as why do we discipline people who commit murder and leave those who commit falsehood. Should we leave disciplining those that are committing murder just because we do not discipline those who commit falsehood?
We need to understand the role and function of church discipline. Church discipline just like home discipline is not judgment, it is a corrective measure, blessed is the man/woman who receives discipline. We need to thank God if the church disciplines us, that means there is still a hope for us, and God loves us so much that He wants to correct us. Bearing in mind most of those who excessive discipline in the church also need discipline.
What am I trying to say? If some one comes to you and ask you remove your necklace, don't ask them why are they not undressing the sister who us wearing Lauren Taylor costume, be grateful that Lord cares so much about you to send some one to correct you.
There are Christian principles that are difficult to enforce, like bearing false witness and wearing fine clothes, but that do not mean that we should not try to correct our fellow brothers on other issues.
What really matters is my relationship with my Lord, however, some times we lose the relationship and we don't even know it, but our works reveal that we don't have that connection. In this situation we need the church/brothers or sisters to correct us.
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
>>> Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za> 08/16 3:21 AM >>>
-----Original Message-----
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
To: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, August 14, 1999 8:44 PM
Subject: Wearing of Jewellery!
Why is wearing of Jewellery such a major issue in the SDA church?
Before I go any further, let me share with you one of the traditional texts often quoted as the basis for not wearing jewellery.
"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment,such as braided hair, and the wearing of gold jewellery and fine clothes, Instead it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in the sight of God." NIV
What is the main focus in this text? Is it the wearing of jewellery? To me Peter is encouraging his listeners to focus on the inner beauty and not the outward. He gives a few example of what it means to focus on the outward.
What we have succeeded as as the church is to tell our members not to wear jewellery, and this has become a sign of true adventism. What about the gentle and quiet spirit Peter speaks of?
Who cares? As long as they are not wearing jewellery, then we can all go home our business is over. What about fine clothes, who wants to dare and talk about fine clothes? Today many of our members are sinking in the pool of debt, because they are trying to look beautiful. As long as we focus on the outward we will produce faithful legalists who think that they are saved by not wearing jewellery, never mind the gentle spirit. It reminds me of the Pharisees of old, they were masters of the outward, professional externalists.
I believe that we need to start focussing on what Peter is emphasising in this text and that is the inner beauty. This is the only solution to the sickness of materialism that is engulfing our church today.
Should we wear jewellery or not? The answer is, what difference does it make? The right question is, how can we develop an inner beauty?
Jongimpi
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:53:48 +0200
From: "Thabo Nale" <nalet@telkom32.telkom.co.za>
Subject: Re: Intro'
Thabitha,
I would like to take this opportunity to welcome you on this mailing
list. I'm also new in it and it made me feel at home to get a welcome
from someone.
Like you said, if there be any other information required, we should
ask. Is Elias, the husband to Thandi Sibeko (maiden name), your
brother? Or is it just similarities in surnames.
I was personally touched by your thought for the day. I think it is a
good thing to have it in mind always.
Thabo Nale
>>> <tmautla@edgars.co.za> 08/16 2:23 PM >>>
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
My name is Thabitha Dorcas Mathapelo Mautla - (Mautla is my surname).
I work for Edgars Headquarters ( Edgardale) in Crown Mines - as a
Garment
Technologist (Quality Assurance Dept).
I did my high school at Good Hope High School (SDA) in Cape Town, came
back to
Wits at did my N.Dipl. Production Management.
I am a born Adventist - my Father is Adventist Pastor.
Well I guess if anyone needs to know more - ask.
I am very happy to be in this mailing list and I know we are going to
learn alot
from each other.
Here is a thought for the day: - TOUGH TIMES NEVER LAST, BUT TOUGH
PEOPLE DO.
- BE KIND TO
OTHERS
YOU MAY NEVER KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH.
Thabitha Mautla
Tel: 495 7787
Fax: 495 7756
Cell: 083 320 4530
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_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:15:04 +0200
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
Subject: Re: Intro'
Thank you Thabo - I do feel welcomed.
Yes, Thabo, Elias is my elder brother there is another brother between us. Yes,
Thandi Sibeko is my sister.
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:32:43 +0200
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
Subject: FW: Friends
---------------------- Forwarded by Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA on 08/17/99 11:35
AM ---------------------------
Maggie Boshomane <mboshomane@meltz.co.za> on 08/04/99 10:05:25 AM
To: Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA@Edgars
cc:
Subject: FW: Friends
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LANDIWE@za.ibm.com [SMTP:LANDIWE@za.ibm.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 3:43 PM
> To: MBoshomane@meltz.co.za; ekasenge@za.ibm.com; xolanim@gcl.co.za;
> RakoditsoeS@abg.sbic.co.za; thebe@sn.apc.org; angek@inet.co.za
> Subject: FW: Friends
>
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:39:30 +0200
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
Subject: FW: FRIENDS
---------------------- Forwarded by Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA on 08/17/99 11:43
AM ---------------------------
Viwe Jakavula <viwe.jakavula@vodacom.co.za> on 08/12/99 02:19:09 PM
To: j.d.papu@mweb.co.za, charleigh23@hotmail.com, thembekab@gensec.com,
Thandeka Mandleni <thandeka.mandleni@vodacom.co.za>, Romaine Ernstzen
<ErnstzeR@vodacom.co.za>, zizo@el-mvula.co.za,
nqumsebi@ecboedu1.ecape.gov.za, mfekal@telkom.co.za, mayaban@telkom.co.za,
Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA@Edgars, Kwena Moyo <Moyok@vodacom.co.za>
cc:
Subject: FW: FRIENDS
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:42:03 +0200
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
Subject: FW: Beautiful!!!
---------------------- Forwarded by Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA on 08/17/99 11:47
AM ---------------------------
Viwe Jakavula <viwe.jakavula@vodacom.co.za> on 08/11/99 11:50:20 AM
To: Romaine Ernstzen <ErnstzeR@vodacom.co.za>, Claire Frueholz
<Fruehcl@vodacom.co.za>, zizo@el-mvula.co.za,
PumlaNgamlana@deltamotorcorp.co.za, charleigh23@hotmail.com,
thembekab@gensec.com, j.d.papu@mweb.co.za, nqumsebi@ecboedu1.ecape.gov.za,
vmxoli@indlovu.bortech.ac.za, Thabitha Mautla/Edgars/ZA@Edgars
cc:
Subject: FW: Beautiful!!!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:44:24 +0200
From: Fairbridge Dlamini <dlaminif@emsa.co.za>
Subject: Introduction
Greetings
My name is Mdu Dlamini, I'm based in Meyerton, Gauteng but am originally
from Durban. I attend church at Sebokeng Zone 7.
Warm Christian regards
F. Mduduzi Dlamini
Tel 016 360 3081 (W)
Fax 016 360 3124
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:54:19 +0200
From: <tmautla@edgars.co.za>
Subject: Re: Introduction
Welcome Brother.
Thabitha
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:13:27 +0200
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: Fw: Wearing of Jewellery!
Jerry
I fully agree with your detailed explanation of the predicament we often
found ourselves in trying to focus on the external rather than the inside.
On that I say Amen!
Somewhere you mentioned discipline as a way of illustrating your point. I
must say I agree with the first part, that it is not practical to discipline
one for selfishness but for murder or adultery, there is no problem.
Coming to the issue of jewellery, how do you discipline one who wears a
necklace? Maybe I should ask, why should that person be disciplined? In
my view no one has the right to go to a member and ask that member to take
off her/hisnecklace. That does not solve anything. Taking the necklace
off does not immediately create the inward beauty. The person might
substitute it with something else, say fine clothes. What have we
achieved?
Wearing a necklace,for example, is not a moral issue nor a health issue, it
might just be a symptom of something else. Let us deal with the issue
underlying the wearing of the necklace and not take a short cut by dealing
with the necklace. I believe that God is not offended by a necklace but He
is pleased by a gentle spirit. By taking off the necklace we are definitely
not pleasing God for He is not offended by it.
I still believe, Jerry, and I know you agree with me, as a church we need to
start focusing on the development of the inner person. For instance, who
care whether our young people do have a Sabbath school lesson, or a bible.
Who cares whether they have a vibrant prayer life or not. All we seem to
be concerned with is, you must not wear any jewellery, you must not wear any
jewellery, you must not wear any jewellery!!!!!!
Peace!
Jongimpi
-----Original Message-----
From: Mashudu Ravhengani <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Fw: Wearing of Jewellery!
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Jongimpi,
I see the point you are making; to me it is similar to what Christ was
talking about when He spoke about letter of the law and the spirit of the
law.
Some times we emphasize the periphery and end losing the real point. In my
view Peter is addressing the question of adornment. The point that I see him
making is that what attracts people to us should not be how we look on the
outside but Christ who is in the inside. After people have met Jeremiah
what do they remember about him? Is he the young man with a fancy car, a
young man who wears suits with big labels, or they only remember his
Christ-like words/love and caring? The question is what attracts people to
you? A fellow that I knew very well once told me that he has two girl
friends and his car has six. Obviously he was not a Christian but I hope it
does serve to make a point.
What if there is no Christ in the inside? In the paper that I wrote few
years ago on the subject of Jewelry and Adventism (Presented at SDASA Dec
1992) there is story of a woman who specializes in marketing jewelry, she is
quoted as saying that jewelry helps people who have low self esteem to feel
better about themselves.
When there is nothing in the inside, we try to compensate by hanging some
things on the outside. When there is nothing in the inside we try to put
something expensive on the outside to try to get some attention.
As if that is not enough, some of the ladies are finding out that expensive
clothes and jewelry are not helping them, now leave their bodies outside the
clothes. Even that does not help since only Jesus can satisfy.
Yes, it seems like we are having double standards since we do not allow
members to wear jewelry whereas they are allowed to wear fine clothes. This
is the same question as why do we discipline people who commit murder and
leave those who commit falsehood. Should we leave disciplining those that
are committing murder just because we do not discipline those who commit
falsehood?
We need to understand the role and function of church discipline. Church
discipline just like home discipline is not judgment, it is a corrective
measure, blessed is the man/woman who receives discipline. We need to thank
God if the church disciplines us, that means there is still a hope for us,
and God loves us so much that He wants to correct us. Bearing in mind most
of those who excessive discipline in the church also need discipline.
What am I trying to say? If some one comes to you and ask you remove your
necklace, don't ask them why are they not undressing the sister who us
wearing Lauren Taylor costume, be grateful that Lord cares so much about you
to send some one to correct you.
There are Christian principles that are difficult to enforce, like bearing
false witness and wearing fine clothes, but that do not mean that we should
not try to correct our fellow brothers on other issues.
What really matters is my relationship with my Lord, however, some times we
lose the relationship and we don't even know it, but our works reveal that
we don't have that connection. In this situation we need the church/brothers
or sisters to correct us.
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
>>> Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za> 08/16 3:21 AM >>>
-----Original Message-----
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
To: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, August 14, 1999 8:44 PM
Subject: Wearing of Jewellery!
Why is wearing of Jewellery such a major issue in the SDA church?
Before I go any further, let me share with you one of the traditional texts
often quoted as the basis for not wearing jewellery.
"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment,such as braided hair,
and the wearing of gold jewellery and fine clothes, Instead it should be
that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit,
which is of great worth in the sight of God." NIV
What is the main focus in this text? Is it the wearing of jewellery? To
me Peter is encouraging his listeners to focus on the inner beauty and not
the outward. He gives a few example of what it means to focus on the
outward.
What we have succeeded as as the church is to tell our members not to wear
jewellery, and this has become a sign of true adventism. What about the
gentle and quiet spirit Peter speaks of?
Who cares? As long as they are not wearing jewellery, then we can all go
home our business is over. What about fine clothes, who wants to dare and
talk about fine clothes? Today many of our members are sinking in the pool
of debt, because they are trying to look beautiful. As long as we focus on
the outward we will produce faithful legalists who think that they are saved
by not wearing jewellery, never mind the gentle spirit. It reminds me of
the Pharisees of old, they were masters of the outward, professional
externalists.
I believe that we need to start focussing on what Peter is emphasising in
this text and that is the inner beauty. This is the only solution to the
sickness of materialism that is engulfing our church today.
Should we wear jewellery or not? The answer is, what difference does it
make? The right question is, how can we develop an inner beauty?
Jongimpi
--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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If you join ONElist’s FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to
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The King is even at the door!
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