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There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. Accepting Donations from "Outsiders"
From: "Daniel Dlongolo" <daniel@xxx.xx.xxx
2. Re: Sponsorship?
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
3. Re: RE: Welcome
From: Lyndon Bender <lbender@xxx.xxx.xx.xxx
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:05:06 0
From: "Daniel Dlongolo" <daniel@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Accepting Donations from "Outsiders"
I found the following conflicting statements while searching the EGW database. I am not sure which was written
first as both are dated 1895.
1. A decision taken by the GC session in 1895 regarding this issue:
Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, page 526 ,527
Chapter Title: Appendix Notes
PAGE 197. RECEIVING GIFTS FROM GENTILES OR HEATHEN: SEE ALSO PAGES 202, 203. IN THE LATTER PART OF
1893, ELDER A. T. ROBINSON, LEADING OUT IN THE WORK OF THE CHURCH IN SOUTH AFRICA AND WISHING TO
SECURE LAND FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A MISSION AMONG THE NATIVES, ARRANGED FOR AN INTERVIEW
WITH CECIL RHODES, PREMIER OF CAPE COLONY AND HEAD OF THE BRITISH SOUTH AFRICAN COMPANY
OPERATING IN MASHONALAND. RHODES WAS ESPECIALLY PLEASED WITH THE PLAN OUTLINED FOR OPERATING
A MISSION AMONG THE NATIVES OF THAT COUNTRY, AND HANDED TO ELDER ROBINSON A SEALED LETTER
ADDRESSED TO DR. JEMISON, SECRETARY OF THE COMPANY, TO BE GIVEN TO HIM IN BULAWAYO. THE
BRETHREN WENT TO BULAWAYO EXPECTING TO PURCHASE LAND, AND DID NOT KNOW UNTIL JEMISON TOLD
THEM THAT RHODES HAD ORDERED HIM TO GIVE THEM ALL THE LAND THEY WANTED. A TRACT OF TWELVE
THOUSAND ACRES WAS SELECTED, AND THIS BECAME THE SITE OF THE SOLUSI MISSION, THE FIRST ONE
OPERATED BY THE DENOMINATION AMONG NON-CHRISTIAN PEOPLES. A KNOWLEDGE OF THIS GIFT CREATED
CONSIDERABLE CONCERN AMONG CERTAIN LEADING BRETHREN AT BATTLE CREEK, WHO FEARED THAT TO ACCEPT
IT WOULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE PRINCIPLES OF THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. AS THE MATTER WAS
DISCUSSED AT THE GENERAL CONFERENCE SESSION OF 1895, ACTION WAS TAKEN:
"THAT WE OUGHT NOT AS A DENOMINATION EITHER TO SEEK OR TO ACCEPT FROM ANY CIVIL GOVERNMENT, CHIEF,
RULER, OR ROYAL CHARTERED COMPANY, SUPREME, LOCAL, OR OTHERWISE, ANY GIFT, OR DONATION, CONCESSION,
GRANT, EITHER OF LAND, MONEY, CREDIT, SPECIAL PRIVILEGE, OR OTHER THING OF VALUE, TO WHICH WE ARE NOT IN
COMMON WITH ALL OTHERS JUSTLY ENTITLED AS MEN WITHOUT ANY REFERENCE TO OUR RELIGIOUS PROFESSION
OR RELIGIOUS WORK."
2. A later from EG White, dated 30 June 1895, to somebody who asked her about the issue:
Counsels on Stewardship, page 185, paragraph 1,2
Chapter Title: Favors to Be Received as Well as Imparted
Receiving Gifts From Outside:
You inquire with respect to the propriety of receiving gifts from Gentiles or the heathen. The question is not
strange; but I would ask you, Who is it that owns our world? Who are the real owners of houses and lands? Is it
not God? He has an abundance in our world which He has placed in the hands of men, by which the hungry
might be supplied with food, the naked with clothing, the homeless with homes. The Lord would move upon
worldly men, even idolaters, to give of their abundance for the support of the work, if we would approach them
wisely, and give them an opportunity of doing those things which it is their privilege to do. What they would give
we should be privileged to receive.
We should become acquainted with men in high places, and by exercising the wisdom of the serpent, and the
harmlessness of the dove, we might obtain advantage from them, for God would move upon their minds to do
many things in behalf of His people. If proper persons would set before those who have means and influence,
the needs of the work of God in a proper light, these men might do much to advance the cause of God in our
world. We have put away from us privileges and advantages that we might have had the benefit of, because we
chose to stand independent of the world. But we need not sacrifice one principle of truth while taking advantage
of every opportunity to advance the cause of God.- TM 197, 198 .
Happy Sabbath wishes from,
Daniel Bafana Dlongolo
E-mail: daniel@4gl.co.za
Phone : +27 11 476 2224 (w)
Cell : +27 83 289 9975
South Africa
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:58:39 +0200
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Sponsorship?
** Proprietary **
** Reply Requested When Convenient **
Jerry,
You mentioned that one should be able to pay second tithe - is second tithing a biblical instruction or an option to well structured offering?
I don't think that this is something to be dogmatized - it is an idea that can be either accepted or modified according to ones pocket. God blesses those who give with their whole hearts and not sacrificially.
I believe He is at the door.
Lungani
>>> Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com> 08/13 1:36 PM >>>
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
Dawn,
I disagree with you on the point of accepting donations from 'shady'
companies, for as much as Nkosazana Zuma didn't what the cigarettes
companies to sponsor sporting events I do not think that we should
also accept such funds. When SAB donates funds to the church it is
not because they love the idea of soul wining or the promotion of
Christian ideals, No! on the contrary they are against those ideals.
For SAB/cigarettes companies to sponsor any events their main aim is
promoting their product. Which one is the organization that is
fighting to reduce customers of the SAB/Cigarettes companies? The
church! These companies know exactly what they are doing. They spent
millions on ads, and they are always fighting among themselves to
sponsor prominent events in order to increase their sales. If I were
the marketing manager for one of these companies I was just going to
sponsor churches, for here I would be fighting the enemy head-on. It
is very difficult to fight the one who is your main sponsor.
There is a statement from SOP on this topic but I just couldn't find
it last night, could someone help me with it.
Having said that I must say that I fully agree with the rest of your
presentation, our focus indeed needs to be on evangelism and we must
not waste time on petty issues. And you were right on target when you
stated that the reason why we even start to think about getting
sponsor from the 'shady' companies; is because of the unfaithfulness
of the members. This is the issue that I would like us to focus on,
for this is the root of the problem. If the tree that is in our yard
is producing bad fruits, it does not help this tree to go out and buy
fruits from some 'shady' trees. We need to address the question why
is the tree in our yard producing bad fruits.
Why are the people not supporting the church with their tithes and
offerings? Is it because they do not know about tithes and offerings?
Is it because they do not trust the church officials? Is because we
do not preach the stewardship sermons as often as we should? I think
the answer lies somewhere else. It is because we do not have the
relationship with our Lord. So it does not matter how much we can try
to make the people guilty with those regular once a year stewardship
sermons, it never works. Sometimes we try to appeal to their sense of
pity and even that does not help.
And thatĘs because we do not have the relationship with Jesus, we do
have a relationship with another god or goddess called materialism.
Most of our stewardship sermons address the fruits and not the root
of the problem, and that's why even our solutions are temporal. Yes,
we can paint apples with the peach colour and from a distance they
might look like peaches, yet they remain apples.
Bill Graham says that the last thing that God converts in a man is
his pocket, I disagree. When we accept Jesus as the Lord and savior,
He has to become the Lord of everything that we own including our
pockets.
So what is the problems with our sermons? We assume that the people
have repented and all they need is just to give more, No! The people
do not know the Lord. If they knew Him and trusted Him, stewardship
will come naturally.
After Zaccheus met the Lord, his pocket did not wait until the first
stewardship sermon, his pocket repented immediately. Jesus made the
rich young ruler understand that if he is to repent his pocket must
repent too.
There is a beautiful story that I heard some time ago. It is about a
man who is about to be baptized and the deacon realized that he was
still having his wallet in his pocket, so the deacon offered hold the
man's wallet as he gets into the water. The man responded by saying
no, I want my wallet to be baptized too. I guess that's what most us
need!
What makes things worse in our churches is that those who worship
this god of materialism are highly respect and more often rewarded
with positions. Yes, because he drives a BMW it means that the Lord
is blessing him! And the result is that many of members are trying to
get these BMW's so that they can arrive at a position of honor.
How can they pay R4000.00 towards a BMW every month and still be able
to return the faithful second tithe. That's impossible! We are
expecting too much from the 'poor' people. We need to understand that
some of these BMW are not blessings but curses. (NB there is nothing
wrong with driving BMW's, this is just an illustration)
In these last days there are three things that we need in our
churches Repentance, Repentance, and Repentance!
Lord help us all!
(You will excuse me, I didnĘt enough time re-read this documents, so
there might be a lot of mistakes)
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
--- Vice-Rector for Academic Administration <vradmit@hbc.ac.za>
wrote:
> From: "Vice-Rector for Academic Administration" <vradmit@hbc.ac.za>
>
> >To me this seemed like double standards or counter-productive, in
> one hand
> we are preaching Christ to the little children and on the other we
> are
> introducing SAB to them at an early age.
> >What is the view of members on this issue? Does the Spirit of
> prophecy say
> anything about sponsorship from such organisation? Does it matter
> really
> matter where the money comes from?
> >What about grants from the Government?
>
>
> With both the grant from Coca-Cola and the sponsorship from the SAB
> I don't
> feel it should be an issue, simply because one doesn't approve of a
> product
> or one of the ingredients in a product. I feel that our focus
> should rather
> be on spreading God's good news than on caffiene and beer. Many
> sponsors
> require an ad for their product to be on prominent display, as one
> of the
> conditions of the sponsorship. The fact that SAB is advertised
> does not
> mean all the kids will go out and buy beer - this remains the
> responsibility
> of the parents and educators in showing them the right way and
> helping them
> make right choices in life.
>
> Perhaps if our church members were more generous in giving money
> towards
> these projects there would be no need to seek sponsorship from
> so-called
> "shady" companies. I think that this is a problem that needs to be
> addressed, instead of worrying about what company donates funds
> that help
> spread the Word.
>
> This is the end time! We do not have time to focus on trivial
> matters or
> get distracted from our task! Our energies should be directed
> heavenwards!
> God can use many means to help us spread His good news - we need to
> focus on
> that and get His work done!
>
> Dawn
>
>
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> The King is even at the door!
>
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_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:54:55 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
From: Lyndon Bender <lbender@xxx.xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: RE: Welcome
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Andrew Modise wrote:
> From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
>
> Sam,
>
> The solution to the riddle is to find out why people don't attend the
> crusades. The problem is that our ministry is often times not needs
> based. For example, out tendency is to identify "unentered areas" and
> put up a tent for a crusade. This is most of the time not based on a
> proper needs analysis, in your field it would be a due dilligence
> report. Some of the people you invite to the crusade would like to
> attend the but have more pressing needs like putting food on the table
> for their children. I can imagine that some of them are perhaps
> wondering why we are not following the example of Jesus. Christ
> addressed the basic needs of people first. Perhaps we need to think of
> anti-poverty, anti-crime, counselling, skills development and job
> creation programmes before we talk of crusades. Our needs are not
> necessarily other people's needs. The art of fishing depends critically
> on understanding the environment, behaviour and the type of fish you are
> trying to catch, that will inform you as to what kind of bait to use and
> when to throw the fishing rod into the water. We need to see human
> beings (God's children) first before we can see targets for baptism
> (statistics)!!!!
>
> The beauty of the above is that it fully complements "seek ye first the
> kingdom of God and all else will be added unto you". More of that later
> if you are interested!!!!
>
> God bless
>
> Andrew Modise
Amen! I believe we spend too much time attempting to "convert" people to
the "truth" and condemn them, before trying to find out who they are and
meet them where they are. When non SDA's think of us, they often
associate the name SDA with "non pork eater", or "no caffeine", or "goes
to church on Saturday", or "legalism", or "mark of beast", or "don't do
this".... What happened good old love, caring, giving, and accepting. We
are part of the community. I ask myself the question: If my church was
to close down for 3 months, shut her doors and have no services, would the
community notice this? Would the community cry out "where is the
Church!?" If the answer is "no", then I would suggest the church is
missing what it is to be truly incarnational and christian. I am speaking
from s white residential context.
_________
The heart of the Gospel is GOD WITH US.
Yours Faithfully
Lyndon
*********************************************************************
Lyndon R. Bender lbender@stu.hbc.ac.za
Helderberg College Cape Town, South Africa
"Theology itself is a word, a human response; yet what makes it
theology is not its own word or response but the Word which it
hears and to which it responds. Theology stands and falls with
the Word of God, for the Word of God precedes all theological
words by creating, arousing, and challenging them." K. Barth
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