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There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
2. HOW TO INSTALL LOVE
From: Thandeka Mandleni <thandeka.mandleni@xxxxxxx.xx.xxx
3. HOW TO INSTALL LOVE
From: Thandeka Mandleni <thandeka.mandleni@xxxxxxx.xx.xxx
4. Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
5. Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
6. Re: HOW TO INSTALL LOVE
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
7. Fw: ANN Bulletin: October 12, 1999
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
8. Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
From: "Lulama R. Zantsi" <wels124@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
9. God's Church...
From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@xxx.xxx.xx.xxx
10. Re: God's Church...
From: "Lulama R. Zantsi" <wels124@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
11. RE: Sabbath
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
12. Cape Conference Clips
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
13. RE: Sabbath
From: "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
14. Sabbath Wedding
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
15. RE: Sabbath
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
16. Re: Sabbath Wedding
From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@xxx.xxx.xx.xxx
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:19:19 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
Nick,
I just want to re-echo the words of Alvin. I believe that we can learn a lot from other denominations. The Bible teaches us to learn from the ants, how I wish we could learn from the Jehovah's witness. I have this feeling that the majority of people who are currently Adventist are going to be lost, and that the majority of those who are going to be saved are not (currently) or have never been SDA members.
One of the major Christian decisions that I have made few months ago was after I listened to sermon from a Baptist pastor over the radio.
I also took some major decision with regard to health and temperance after listening to secular people.
So, I believe God can use anyone even Balak to bring His message (verbally or in practice) to us.
As Adventist we think we have absolute truth (copyright to the truth), however my attitude is different, I see myself as a student (like Lulama, a humble leaner), and God can use even the stones to teach me.
In fact, as I stated before, When I hold a Bible study with a non-Adventist I made it very clear that we will only follow what the Bible says. If we find out from the Bible that I am wrong in some of my beliefs (including the Sabbath) I am prepared to change immediately; I won't even consult the pastor. I have no allegiance to the church; my allegiance is to God and His word. The only reason I am still a member of this church is because I have searched the scriptures and proofed it to be the true church. If my studies reveal something different I am prepared to change (even joining a Sunday church) immediately.
In a traditional Adventism that's scary, I guess some out there might be getting worried about having a List Administrator with such views.
I am convinced that this is what Adventism is all about. The Adventist church does not teach people to just follow the tradition, but we all need to study and know the truth for ourselves. When we know that truth (whatever that means) we won't be afraid.
How I wish we could have:
Zeal to preach the gospel like the Jehovah's witness or the Church of the latter day saints
The dedication of the Catholic monks
The knowledge and understanding of the scriptures of Adventists
To me more like Jesus!
Jeremiah
>>> "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com> 10/12 5:45 AM >>>
From: "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com>
Jongimpi,
I have been worried about a question that pertains to our self condemnation
as Adventists. When we get some challenges we normally like to refer to
other people of other denominations. I have always believed that we are or
must be unique and of special character in regard to the reason for which
God called the Adventist church into existence.
When we refer to other denominations when talking about ourselves, for
example evangelism, we would refer to the way Jehovah's Witnesses do their
work and how successful they have been. Specifically, when Alvin refers to
our "arrogance" as against other denominations this corroborates what I have
been thinking about. What troubles me most is that I had to advise our
church board this past weekend not to focus on how other Jehovah's Witnesses
function, but look at how our programs function around the world for soul
winning purposes.
Please help me about this one because I feel it has become abundant practice
in our church.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jongimpi Papu [mailto:j.d.papu@mweb.co.za]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 11:14 AM
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] ME, MYSELF, I
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
Alvin
I must apologise for not fulfilling the promise I made on Sabbath, I was
nowhere near a computer yesterday. Having said that, you are welcome and
we look forward to your humble contributions, we are a big family here, and
you are a part of that family. May God bless you in all your endeavours and
may His name be glorified.
Jongimpi
-----Original Message-----
From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:37 PM
Subject: [sa-sda] ME, MYSELF, I
>From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
>
>Hie Folks,
>
>I've just subscribed to the discussion forum a few minutes ago and maybe
>should take some moments to introduce myself. My name is Alvin Masarira,
>male, early 30s, single, and originally from across the Limpopo
>(Zimbabwe). I have just joined (as from July 99) the Department of Civil
>Engineering of the University of Cape Town as a PostDoctoral Researcher
>(in Structural Steel Engineering) but also do some lecturing. I studied
>and lived in Germany for about 11 years (1987 - 1998) and spent another
>1,5 years in the USA.
>I am a dedicated Seventh Day Adventist and my faith and relationship
>with Christ plays a very BIG role in my life (or at least I try to make
>it THE decisive factor in all I do). I believe we as Adventist have been
>called for a special purpose into existence and have a special message
>for this world. But at the same time I believe God uses and is using
>other Christians (of varoius denominations) to further His work and
>bring His work to completion. Therefore I don't believe that we
>Adventists have a reason to be "arrogant" (sorry for the term!!) and
>think we are better than the Methodists, or Anglicans or Baptists etc.
>We should be humble and be grateful for the light we have and always
>remembering that "from whom much has been given will greater
>accountability be expected".
>That should surfice for now and I hope we will have exciting and
>enriching discussions on this forum.
>Wish everybody (who is in my time zone) a pleasant evening.
>___________________________________________________
>Dr. Alvin Masarira, Department of Civil Engineering
>University of Cape Town, 7701 Cape Town, South Africa.
>Tel.(+27)21-650-2585/4 ; Fax.(+27)21-689-7471
>Email: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
>___________________________________________________
>
>>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:45:23 +0100
From: Thandeka Mandleni <thandeka.mandleni@vodacom.co.za>
Subject: HOW TO INSTALL LOVE
Please welcome me...!! My name is Thandeka Mandleni, 25yrs, one child
17mnths, single.
GUIDE: Are you ready to install the program of LOVE?
SEEKER: I can do that. I'm not very technical, but I think I am ready to
install now. What do I do first?
GUIDE: The first step is to open your HEART. Have you located your HEART?
SEEKER: Yes I have, but there are several programs running right now. Is it
okay to install while they are running?
GUIDE: What programs are running?
SEEKER: Let me see....I have PASTHURT.EXE, GREED.EXE, LOWESTEEM.EXE,
GRUDGE.EXE, RESENTMENT.EXE and JUDGEMENT.EXE running right now.
GUIDE: No problem. LOVE will automatically erase PASTHURT.EXE from your
current operating system. It may remain in your past memory, but it
will no longer disrupt other programs. LOVE will always overwrite
LOW-ESTEEM.EXE with a module of its own called HIGH-ESTEEM.EXE.
However,you have to completely turn off GRUDGE.EXE, GREED.EXE,
RESENTMENT.EXE and JUDGEMENT.EXE. Those programs prevent LOVE from
being properly installed. Can you turn those off ?
SEEKER: I don't know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?
GUIDE: My pleasure. Go to your Start menu and invoke FORGIVENESS.EXE. and
TRUST.TXT. Press your ENTER key. Do this as many times as necessary until
GRUDGE.EXE, GREED.EXE, RESENTMENT.EXE and JUDGEMENT.EXE have been
completely erased from your hard drive.
SEEKER: Okay, I'm done. LOVE has started installing itself automatically.
Is that normal?
GUIDE: Yes it is. You should receive a message that says LOVE will reinstall
for the life of your HEART. Do you see that message?
SEEKER: Yes I do. Is it completely installed?
GUIDE: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You need to
begin connecting to other HEART's in order to get the upgrades.
SEEKER: Oops...I have an error message already. What should I do?
GUIDE: What does the message say?
SEEKER: It says "ERROR 412 - PROGRAM IS NOT RUNNING ON INTERNAL COMPONENTS".
What does that mean?
GUIDE: Don't worry....that's a common problem. It means that the LOVE
program is installed and ready to connect to external HEARTS but has
not yet been run on your HEART. It is one of those complicated
programming things. In non-technical terms it means you have to "LOVE" your
own machine before it can "LOVE" others.
SEEKER: So what should I do?
GUIDE: Can you find the directory called "SELF-ACCEPTANCE"?
SEEKER: Yes, I have it.
GUIDE: Excellent, you are getting good at this.
SEEKER: Thank you.
GUIDE: You're welcome. Click on the following files and then copy them to
the "MYHEART" directory: FORGIVESELF.DOC, REMEMBER.TXT, REALIZEWORTH.TXT,
and FEELDIVINE.DOC. The system will overwrite any conflicting files and
begin patching any faulty programming. Also, you need to delete
SELFCRITIC.EXE from all directories, and then empty your recycle bin
afterwards to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.
SEEKER: Got it. Hey! My HEART is filling up with really neat
files......SMILE.MPG is playing on my monitor right now and it shows
that ABUNDANCE.DOC, PEACE.EXE, and CONTENTMENT.TXT are copying themselves
all over my HEART!
GUIDE: Great....Then LOVE is installed and running. You should be able to
handle it from here. One more thing before I go...
SEEKER: Yes?
GUIDE: Remember...LOVE is freeware. Be sure to give it and ALL of its
modules freely to everybody you meet and they will in turn share it
with other people. You won't believe the amount of upgrades that will
return to you. Hope you have a big hard drive.
SEEKER: No problem. .I can always expand. Thanks for your help!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:45:23 +0100
From: Thandeka Mandleni <thandeka.mandleni@vodacom.co.za>
Subject: HOW TO INSTALL LOVE
Please welcome me...!! My name is Thandeka Mandleni, 25yrs, one child
17mnths, single.
GUIDE: Are you ready to install the program of LOVE?
SEEKER: I can do that. I'm not very technical, but I think I am ready to
install now. What do I do first?
GUIDE: The first step is to open your HEART. Have you located your HEART?
SEEKER: Yes I have, but there are several programs running right now. Is it
okay to install while they are running?
GUIDE: What programs are running?
SEEKER: Let me see....I have PASTHURT.EXE, GREED.EXE, LOWESTEEM.EXE,
GRUDGE.EXE, RESENTMENT.EXE and JUDGEMENT.EXE running right now.
GUIDE: No problem. LOVE will automatically erase PASTHURT.EXE from your
current operating system. It may remain in your past memory, but it
will no longer disrupt other programs. LOVE will always overwrite
LOW-ESTEEM.EXE with a module of its own called HIGH-ESTEEM.EXE.
However,you have to completely turn off GRUDGE.EXE, GREED.EXE,
RESENTMENT.EXE and JUDGEMENT.EXE. Those programs prevent LOVE from
being properly installed. Can you turn those off ?
SEEKER: I don't know how to turn them off. Can you tell me how?
GUIDE: My pleasure. Go to your Start menu and invoke FORGIVENESS.EXE. and
TRUST.TXT. Press your ENTER key. Do this as many times as necessary until
GRUDGE.EXE, GREED.EXE, RESENTMENT.EXE and JUDGEMENT.EXE have been
completely erased from your hard drive.
SEEKER: Okay, I'm done. LOVE has started installing itself automatically.
Is that normal?
GUIDE: Yes it is. You should receive a message that says LOVE will reinstall
for the life of your HEART. Do you see that message?
SEEKER: Yes I do. Is it completely installed?
GUIDE: Yes, but remember that you have only the base program. You need to
begin connecting to other HEART's in order to get the upgrades.
SEEKER: Oops...I have an error message already. What should I do?
GUIDE: What does the message say?
SEEKER: It says "ERROR 412 - PROGRAM IS NOT RUNNING ON INTERNAL COMPONENTS".
What does that mean?
GUIDE: Don't worry....that's a common problem. It means that the LOVE
program is installed and ready to connect to external HEARTS but has
not yet been run on your HEART. It is one of those complicated
programming things. In non-technical terms it means you have to "LOVE" your
own machine before it can "LOVE" others.
SEEKER: So what should I do?
GUIDE: Can you find the directory called "SELF-ACCEPTANCE"?
SEEKER: Yes, I have it.
GUIDE: Excellent, you are getting good at this.
SEEKER: Thank you.
GUIDE: You're welcome. Click on the following files and then copy them to
the "MYHEART" directory: FORGIVESELF.DOC, REMEMBER.TXT, REALIZEWORTH.TXT,
and FEELDIVINE.DOC. The system will overwrite any conflicting files and
begin patching any faulty programming. Also, you need to delete
SELFCRITIC.EXE from all directories, and then empty your recycle bin
afterwards to make sure it is completely gone and never comes back.
SEEKER: Got it. Hey! My HEART is filling up with really neat
files......SMILE.MPG is playing on my monitor right now and it shows
that ABUNDANCE.DOC, PEACE.EXE, and CONTENTMENT.TXT are copying themselves
all over my HEART!
GUIDE: Great....Then LOVE is installed and running. You should be able to
handle it from here. One more thing before I go...
SEEKER: Yes?
GUIDE: Remember...LOVE is freeware. Be sure to give it and ALL of its
modules freely to everybody you meet and they will in turn share it
with other people. You won't believe the amount of upgrades that will
return to you. Hope you have a big hard drive.
SEEKER: No problem. .I can always expand. Thanks for your help!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:24:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
Subject: Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Mashudu Ravhengani wrote:
> As Adventist we think we have absolute truth (copyright to the truth),
> however my attitude is different, I see myself as a student (like
> Lulama, a humble leaner), and God can use even the stones to teach me.
> In fact, as I stated before, When I hold a Bible study with a non-Adventist
> I made it very clear that we will only follow what the Bible says. If we
> find out from the Bible that I am wrong in some of my beliefs (including
> the Sabbath) I am prepared to change immediately; I won't even consult
> the pastor. I have no allegiance to the church; my allegiance is to God
> and His word. The only reason I am still a member of this church is
> because I have searched the scriptures and proofed it to be the true
> church. If my studies reveal something different I am prepared to change
> (even joining a Sunday church) immediately.
Jeremiah,
I agree with you that we need to follow what the Word says but I forsee
danger in your attitude. First of all I believe it is good practice to
consult somebody when you discover something (a belief) that is contrary
to what you currently believe. You might have misintepreted the text you
think renounces your belief. For example one can read Col 2:16 and Rom
14:1-6 and conclude that the Sabbath is done away with. But careful study
of the texts will reveal that the verses don't even talk about the weekly
Sabbath.
Secondly, I personally don't think that one should change denominations
just because some of the beliefs of his denominations are wrong. We need
to remember that all denominations are imperfect, they do not have
"absolute truth". This, in my opinion, applies to non-adventists wanting
to join adventism. If living God's truth in the movement you are in will
be impossible then one might think of joining another movement. Should one
leave adventism just because EGW is proved to be false?
I think the SDA church can easily survive even if it can be proved that
EGW was a fake. (The Reformed movement will surely crumble as they have
made her writing a second Bible if not the first. This is one of my major
problems with this movement.)
My point is you need to ask yourself a question: Can I live according
to the light I have just received in my present church? If it would be
impossible then I guess one can leave for another church. I don't think
we can leave just because the sanctuary doctrine is believed to be wrong.
Desmond Ford is a good example.
May Jesus keep us near the Cross.
Daniel
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:51:18 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
Daniel,
>>First of all I believe it is good practice to consult somebody when you discover something (a belief) that is contrary to what you currently believe.
You are right, may be I overstated my point.
What I was trying to bring across is that we need to know what we believe for ourselves and not rely on pastors or church leaders.
>>Secondly, I personally don't think that one should change denominations just because some of the beliefs of his denominations are wrong.
As stated above I used this to emphasis the fact that we need to know what we believe.
After some few years of studying with both Adventist and non-Adventist I have not found even one of our beliefs that is contrary to the scriptures. Indeed all of our beliefs (including SOP) can be validated in the scriptures. Yes, as a church we continue to study and learn, and God continue to lead us, and the light becomes brighter and brighter as we come to the end of time. We believe in what the pioneers called the 'present truth' (the light the God has revealed to us at that point and time).
Yes, we continue to have debates in the church on issues like the nature of Christ, women ordination etc. God is leading and guiding us.
(You will realize that my tone has change for I don't want to be misunderstood)
Somebody asks a question how can we know if we are in the right church? What if we start another church that has similar beliefs? The answer is in the scriptures. The Adventist church is not like any other church, where some powerful preacher just decides to start his on church. This church has its origin prophesied in the scriptures. The October 22 1844 disappointment can be traced back to scriptures (Rev 10). The fulfillment of the three angel's message is at the very beginning of this movement (Rev 14). This is a prophetic movement. Look at the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, all of this verifies the special message that this church holds, even the beast (the papal system) confess that this is the only church that is following the what the Bible says.
I don't not think that God can lead us in error. Yes, we might not have answers to all what the critics have to say (we don't have to), but when we know the truth, we will never be misled.
Few months ago a brother in the church brought me a book that proves that the Adventist pioneers didn't believe in the trinity doctrine, and it continue to allege that the trinity doctrine is a compromise which the church made with the Catholics. The book had statements from people like Uriah Smith, James White etc. all of this quoted from church magazines. As I read these statements (sometimes I have time to waste) I found out that there was not even a single statement from E.G White. When I read E.G White 's books I found that she supports of the trinity doctrine. This was very confusing to me, until a checked the dates, I found out all of the pioneers messages were prior to E.G White's messages. Then I understood what was happening. Some people do not know that Adventists used to eat pork and smoke pipe.
Sometimes it is not so easy to unravel these schemes of the devil. What is interesting is to see that most of those who attacked the church and E.G White have died miserable deaths, yet the church still moves on. It is one of the fastest growing churches in the world. If the messages of Desmond Ford were from the Lord, He would surely bless them. In the contrary, areas of the church that entertains his views are where the church has the least or negative church growth. The West, since they have forgotten about evangelism, they have theories and issues to entertain themselves. I used to feel bad when I see them been so critical of E.G White until I realized that the same people are just as critical of Matthew, Isaiah, Paul and Luke. Can you believe that they are accusing Matthew of misquoting the Old Testament? Accusing Moses and other prophets for inflating the figures to impress their readers. Doesn't it sound the same as accusing E.G White of Plagiarism etc?
Why does Satan attack Moses, Isaiah and E.G White? He wants people to loose faith in the scriptures and SOP. That's exactly what is happening in the Western countries. Soon we will have to send missionaries from Africa to go and preach in the dark continents of Europe, Australia and America. In fact, In Britain, if ever it was not for the Africans from the West Indies Adventism might have been part of history.
About reformers: Few years ago I used to be part of a team of laymen (based in Pretoria) who used to hold SOP studies with the leadership of the reformers (leaders of the SDA reform conference based in Soweto). We used to study on Sabbath evenings from about 8 PM to about 3-4 Am Sunday mornings. Here, I met some of the most intelligent and articulate young men. I was very impressed with their knowledge of E.G White writings. Unlike some of the encounters with reformers, which deals with stupid pamphlets and gossips, our study was on theological and prophetic origin and necessity of the SDA reform church. We can discuss this at the later stage. But what is very interesting is that the last time we met with them I presented a paper on the 1888 message (which is supposed to be the core foundation their church). For the first time in our studies they admitted that they were wrong. Here, was the conference secretary, the former conference secretary and some of the leaders admitting that the core foundation of their church is flawed. It is not a surprise that this was the last time they met with us.
It is unfortunate that when the reformers attacked your area (CTD), we offered to pastors in charge to bring this team of lay people who are experienced (one of them laymen is an Ex-member of the reformers) in this studies, but they refused. Some pastors do not think LAYMEN can ever know anything that they don't know. I am told things didn't go very well.
Recently the TOC lost one pastor to them. Few years ago a friend of mine who is a pastor was almost won over by them. The conference president had to go and fetch him from one the reformer's house when they we about to send him to their theology school.
Many are going to be lost for lack of knowledge. We need to study, study and study! For the time is near!
As E.G White wrote, this church will never fail!
Jeremiah
As E.G White wrote, this movement will never fail.
>>> Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za> 10/12 2:24 PM >>>
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Mashudu Ravhengani wrote:
> As Adventist we think we have absolute truth (copyright to the truth),
> however my attitude is different, I see myself as a student (like
> Lulama, a humble leaner), and God can use even the stones to teach me.
> In fact, as I stated before, When I hold a Bible study with a non-Adventist
> I made it very clear that we will only follow what the Bible says. If we
> find out from the Bible that I am wrong in some of my beliefs (including
> the Sabbath) I am prepared to change immediately; I won't even consult
> the pastor. I have no allegiance to the church; my allegiance is to God
> and His word. The only reason I am still a member of this church is
> because I have searched the scriptures and proofed it to be the true
> church. If my studies reveal something different I am prepared to change
> (even joining a Sunday church) immediately.
Jeremiah,
I agree with you that we need to follow what the Word says but I forsee
danger in your attitude. First of all I believe it is good practice to
consult somebody when you discover something (a belief) that is contrary
to what you currently believe. You might have misintepreted the text you
think renounces your belief. For example one can read Col 2:16 and Rom
14:1-6 and conclude that the Sabbath is done away with. But careful study
of the texts will reveal that the verses don't even talk about the weekly
Sabbath.
Secondly, I personally don't think that one should change denominations
just because some of the beliefs of his denominations are wrong. We need
to remember that all denominations are imperfect, they do not have
"absolute truth". This, in my opinion, applies to non-adventists wanting
to join adventism. If living God's truth in the movement you are in will
be impossible then one might think of joining another movement. Should one
leave adventism just because EGW is proved to be false?
I think the SDA church can easily survive even if it can be proved that
EGW was a fake. (The Reformed movement will surely crumble as they have
made her writing a second Bible if not the first. This is one of my major
problems with this movement.)
My point is you need to ask yourself a question: Can I live according
to the light I have just received in my present church? If it would be
impossible then I guess one can leave for another church. I don't think
we can leave just because the sanctuary doctrine is believed to be wrong.
Desmond Ford is a good example.
May Jesus keep us near the Cross.
Daniel
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:02:10 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: HOW TO INSTALL LOVE
Thandeka,
Welcome to the Family, Thanks for helping us install the LOVE software.
Greetings to your child.
The King of love is coming!
Jeremiah
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:34:53 +0200
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Fw: ANN Bulletin: October 12, 1999
fyi
Shirley
-----Original Message-----
From: adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org
<adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org>
To: adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org
<adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org>
Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 01:44
Subject: ANN Bulletin: October 12, 1999
ANN Bulletin
Adventist News Network
Seventh-day Adventist Church World Headquarters
October 12, 1999
-------------------
In This Issue:
* Brazilian Youth Write Out Three-Kilometers-Long Bible in 25 Minutes
* "Chasing Utopia:" A Video Series for Secular Society
* Loma Linda University Church to Launch National Television Ministry
-------------------
Brazilian Youth Write Out Three-Kilometers-Long Bible in 25 Minutes
Florianópolis, Brazil ... [ANN]
There was no end to the excitement as 3,794 Seventh-day Adventist
Brazilian youth wrote out the entire Bible by hand on a three-kilometer
long piece of paper on a water-front boulevard in Florianópolis.
The excitement was amplified by the result-it was accomplished in 25
minutes!
The Scripture-writing event was part of a four-day "Bridge of Hope"
convocation, a mega-event for young people from four southern states of
Brazil, which was held October 8-11, 1999, in the coastal city of
Florianópolis.
"We all came to build a human 'bridge of hope' in the community. It's
symbolic about what we were interested in doing-reaching out to those
among whom we live" said Udolcy Zukowski, communication director of the
South Brazilian Union of Seventh-day Adventists, who was in charge of
the event.
"We wanted to do something more than just meet, play and study
together. The plan is to show our Christianity in practice, as members
of the community in which we all live," he explained.
The city of Florianópolis was chosen because of its symbolic
significance. The city, which is located on an island, is connected
with the mainland by a well-known bridge dating back to 1926. More than
400 bridges, based on a similar design by David Steinman, were built
around the world.
"The bridge metaphor was important for us," Zukowski explained. "No
matter where you come from, it's the community in which you live that
challenges you to share who you are and be practical. So, we came to
show our religion in practice in Florianópolis. Our young people will
now return to their own local communities and be inspired to build
bridges wherever we come from."
For the organizers, the connection between the Bible-writing event and
the "bridge of hope" activities was obvious. It was quickly explained
that Christ is a bridge between heaven and earth. God is the bridge
builder, and the Bible can be viewed as a "bridge-building manual."
The state governor of Santa Catarina, Esperidiao Amim, and Angela Amim,
the mayor of Florianópolis, together with other city administrators,
became a part of the project. Amim was the first Scripture writer on
the Florianópolis boulevard.
"This event has great significance for us. We are receiving it from
young people writing parts of the Book of wisdom and peace in a moment
when peace and wisdom is so necessary," Amim said during the event. He
was overwhelmed, he said, by the dedication of the young people,
"mainly because it is a work done with love. So, let us build a bridge
with love, in accordance to I Corinthians 13:4," he commented.
The "bridge of hope" event was planned with the city managers. "Our
young people joined the city managers in making a difference for the
citizens," says Siloe de Almeida, a public relations specialist who
heads the South American Adventist Church's communication department in
Brasilia. "The city availed municipal services and resources to join
the Adventist young people in a variety of activities. It was a
partnership."
The organizers explained that the event, which at first was planned as
their first youth camporee, has been now re-focused to give
"inspiration, motivation, and orientation and will give assistance to
the community, improved quality of life, health orientation and
especially hope," says Zukowski.
Adventist young people developed and participated in some 20 different
community projects aiming to supply necessities, create goodwill, break
prejudice between people, and open the hearts of individuals to the
message of the gospel. The city streets and the local beaches, which
are proudly regarded as among the best in the country, were cleaned,
and other individual projects included providing awareness and ways to
save electric energy, water and water quality.
"There is always more to do. It was exciting to see us make a
contribution, though always only symbolic. We have much to do where we
are living. That's the challenge," said Alexandre, a 20-year-old
student from Santa Catarina.
Zukowski and other coordinators of the event were eager to explain the
objectives. "With these activities, the needy will have some of their
necessities met. Some individuals will receive hope and will come to
know us as a people of hope. The young people will feel useful and
revived to change their own lives for the better and will learn how to
develop similar projects in their cities when they return home."
"What we saw in Florianópolis was the church working together in
communicating our hope and our faith. We did it through the language of
love. The young people, the pastors, the professionals, the educators
and health specialists-all working together. That's first. Then we
joined a partnership with others among whom we live. It's all
exciting."
"Not only here, but also in other parts of the country, the church is
not as well known as it should be and could be," explains de Almeida.
"That's why we feel it is important to make a particular statement as
to who Seventh-day Adventists are."
The event not only generated excitement among the young people. The
local and national media included reports from Florianópolis in their
coverage.
"We also believe that our churches feel the necessity of becoming
involved with the community by using an inclusive, not exclusive,
language of love and grace," explains de Almeida. "What you see here is
a vision and a language of embrace. After all, we are a people of
hope."
"As the project is concluded, we aim to see that many citizens of
Florianópolis will be able to identify Seventh-day Adventists as the
Church of hope," he adds.
Such a strong youth presence and activities have a special meaning for
the local Adventist faith community of Florianópolis, which represents
a pastoral district. Each local congregation in the city will be able
to build a missionary bridge of hope for future church activities. "We
will continue our witness with the enthusiasm we are seeing this
weekend," explained one of the local ministers. [Ray Dabrowski]
"Chasing Utopia:" A Video Series for Secular Society
Sydney, Australia ... [ANN]
Presenting the Christian message to secular society in an effective way
is perhaps the highest priority for Seventh-day Adventists in
Australia, according to John Banks, head of the Adventist Media in
Sydney. This has led to the production of a new video series, "Chasing
Utopia."
"As long as I remember, we always struggled with a vision to make a
significant impact on secular society," Banks says.
Adventist Media, a production center in Wahroonga, near Sydney, is
known in Christian circles for cutting-edge technology and production
standards that match the needs of sophisticated listeners and viewers.
"Here we are well equipped, both in talent and technology, to give our
listeners the best, most inspiring product. We've been through all the
traditional, tried-and-true ideas and projects. With 'Chasing Utopia'
we are embarking on something completely new and exciting in its
potential," he explains.
According to Banks, the purpose of the production is to raise issues
and present Christian values to the Australian and New Zealand viewers.
"We must always think of a context in which our message is being
given. That's how you can be certain that you are audience-oriented and
that you are reaching them on their level. What we are doing with this
production is preparing the way for evangelism."
Banks explains that "the anticipated outcome is to open minds and
present a logical, rational and reasonable argument that may lead to
further questions and evaluation of the topic."
Saatchi & Saatchi, a large and well-respected international advertising
agency, assisted Adventist Media in establishing a credible link with
the secular way of thinking and life.
"We knew that we needed to inform our scripting and production with
professional research. The Saatchi & Saatchi brief included a target
group of 25 to 39 years of age-both single and married, with and
without children. The research provided us with topics to consider,
such as happiness, celebrity, addiction, sexuality, finance, racism,
disasters, to name a few," Banks explains.
With the research in hand, the creative team of the center proposed 13
topics in the series-a quarter of a television year. Each episode is
to be 24 minutes long and two episodes have been completed already.
Seven are to be completed by the middle of 2000.
Each episode is given a thorough evaluation by a panel to assess the
impact and outcome. The producers are interested in the opinion of
others, not only our own church members, Banks said. The media center
producers, led by Gabe Reynaud, are using contemporary and innovative
techniques so that the segments will be of the quality to attract TV
network interest.
He is keen to comment that in order to use television effectively, one
must understand the medium that it is. "There will not be any preaching
segments," he adds. "In order to be responsive to a television genre,
we have opted for interviews."
The concept for a series of films produced for television was approved
in 1995. Since then the church, which aims to connect with the secular
mind, has supported the concept philosophically and financially.
"Effective communication productions are costly. But, if you want to do
things right, you must be intentional about it and support it
financially," he adds. In addition to funding from the region's South
Pacific Division of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the project
development has also attracted funding from other international
sources, as well as that of the Church's Global Mission funding. Global
Mission underwrites outreach activities directed at population segments
of the world not reached by the gospel.
Though produced initially for Australia and New Zealand, the series is
designed for international audiences. The production involves a global,
as well as culturally diverse, approach. Banks is convinced that the
series "will find meaningful response wherever there is a secular
society-not only in Australia." [Ray Dabrowski]
Loma Linda University Church to Launch National Television Ministry
Loma Linda, California, U.S.A. ... [ANN]
A new national television ministry is being launched by the Loma Linda
University Church this week in the United States.
Aiming to "present quality programming that will reflect a positive
image for our church," the Loma Linda Broadcasting Network (LLBN), as
it will be called, will inaugurate its first live national program on
Saturday, October 16.
According to Ganim Hanna, founder and president of LLBN, the "National
Broadcasting Kickoff" will include interviews of prominent church and
community members, children's stories, dramas, and musical selections.
Hanna stresses that the television ministry he is coordinating is not
something "one wants to keep to oneself. The ministry has a world-wide
potential."
Interest in television broadcasting on a larger-than-local scale dates
back to 1997 when the Loma Linda University Church established a
non-profit organization to run the ministry. "It became clear that the
mission of our ministry should include a national and possibly
international exposure," says Clifford A. Walters, spokesperson for
LLBN.
Currently, Media Ministries, which has taped a variety of spiritual
programs sponsored by the University Church, coordinates a daily
broadcast on local cable channels with over 25,000 viewers. The October
16 program, to be aired via satellite, will be the beginning of taking
the broadcasting vision of LLBN to a wider audience.
The programs are aimed for all ages and needs. Located at the
Seventh-day Adventist leading medical center, Loma Linda University,
the programming team has access to top health and medical experts in
the United States. The current programming on cable includes family
counseling, educational, and health and medicine presentations. "Our
television program emphasizes family values, but is also informational
and educational," says Walters.
Walters calls the proposed LLBN offer "a variety of new concepts in
quality programming with a spiritual bent." Broadcasting from a
religious community, the inspirational programming includes a weekly
sermon from the university church. "We hope that this ambitious
endeavor will change the lives of many people throughout the United
States and Canada," comments Walters. "Loma Linda Broadcasting
Network's ultimate goal is to be a catalyst for the facilitation of
change and blessing in the lives of all God's people."
The first satellite transmission of the Loma Linda Broadcasting Network
can be viewed on October 16, 1999, via C-Band Telestar 6 transponder 11
from 6-9 PM, EST, and 3-6 PM, PDT. [Ray Dabrowski]
-------------------
12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, Maryland, USA 20904-6600.
(301) 680-6306.
CompuServe address: 74532,2611. News Bulletin is a review of news and
information issued by the Communication Department from the Seventh-day
Adventist Church World Headquarters and released as part of the service
of Adventist News Network. It is being made available primarily to
religious news editors. Our news includes dispatches from the Church's
international offices and the world headquarters. The information
provided in the Bulletin may be reproduced without permission providing
that the source "Adventist News Network" is acknowledged.
ANN Staff: Ray Dabrowski, director; Jonathan Gallagher, news director;
Heather Brannan, editorial assistant. Copyright Adventist News Network
1999.
-----
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:07:04 +2
From: "Lulama R. Zantsi" <wels124@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: RE: ME, MYSELF, I
Brethren,
I probably will agree with most viewpoints about the complacency that
has just crept into the membership of the SDA Church as regards her
position against other denominations. Call me a conservative if you
like, I am not all apologetic about my encounter with God's truth
that led me to His church. Equally true is that I do not believe that
there is any discovery coming sometime in the future that will change
my convictions about God's "true church". This humble learner may
struggle to accept Jerry's viewpoint that the majority in "the world
made new" will come from non-SDA members. I would rather accept the
reality that there may be people who may be saved to glory without
having heard of the whole truth.
I believe Jesus meant what He said "Other sheep I have which are not
of this fold .... once they have heard, they will come to my
fold"-John 10. This tells my little simple mind that God has a fold
somewhere and that not all are presently in this fold - hence the
need for outreach efforts. Otherwise, if one can live for Jesus in any
other denomination and make it to heaven, then what's the point?
Perhaps we could balance the act by thinking of a grid that that has
four blocks like this:
Visible Church Invisible Church
Visible members
Invisible members
It is this humble learner's submission that the SDA Church is God's
visible church and has both visible and invisible members. The
visible members leave for Jesus to their best by the grace of God and
dependence on The Holy Spirit. However, you do have the invisible
church which also has both types of members. Her visible members live
for Jesus within the confines or limitations of the partial truth or
light that they have received. My understanding is that the glories
of heaven will be tasted by the visible members of both the SDA
Church and any other denomination who practise what they preach, walk
the talk and live the truth. This analysis balances the act and
confirms Matt 7:21 "Not all that say Lord, Lord". I still firmly
believe that the SDA Church is the true church - at least on the
basis of available knowledge and proof.
Maybe, phase two of the debate will be to distinguish between
"converts to Adventism" and those "born in Adventism".This humble
learner is not apologetic for being part of the SDA Church and for
God allowing through His divine wisdom that he be born into a family
that belonged to this church.
To know Him and to make Him known. God bless.
Lulama R. Zantsi
"this humble learner"
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:56:33 +0200
From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@xxx.xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: God's Church...
Hie Lulama,
We human beings tend to take extreme positions. They sort of make our lives easier and we do not
have to struggle with finding our positions in the confusing maze of the apparently conflicting grey
areas between the extremes. We are fond of clear "yes/no", "black/white", "true/untrue" answers and
positions. Even in our religious life we are more comfortable with clear positions, clear cut
doctrines with no room for change. But I have come to the realisation that the majority of things in
life lie in the grey area and very often we have to deal and live with ambiguity and vagueness. This
makes us uncomfortable. Christianity and the Bible is full of paradoxes and very complex things. God
is more complex for our small human minds. The danger is always when we start thinking that we have
understood it all and claim to be able to predict Him and His ways in dealing with humanity.
For me it is hard to imagine Mother Theresa not being in heaven or not walking with Martin Luther
King Jr. on streets of gold in the new Jerusalem. Mother Theresa a dedicated Catholic, who offered
prayers to catholic saints and Mary and who did not observe the Sabbath commandment!! MLK, a baptist
preacher! We can name other great man and women of faith who were not necessarily Adventists. I am
not God and I don't know how He will judge them, but I won't be surprised at all if these will also
be found in the kingdom. This has nothing to do with being liberal or compromising on Adventist
truths. It is only an acknowledgement to the greater truth, that God is much bigger and more
sovereign than we can imagine. His ways are way higher than ours. Let us not restrict God's truth
only to the 27 fundamental beliefs of Adventism. The truth and the only truth is Jesus Christ.
As long as we are on this earth we will have to live in this tension zone - between believing that
the Adventist movement is a special movement called for a special purpose and possibly with greater
light than other movements before it but also humbly accepting that God uses many other ways and
people and movements (besides ours) both past and present to complete His mission.
God is not confined only to our movement. If we start believing that, we run the danger of believing
that we "own" Him, we can manipulate Him since He can not be anywhere else except in our house.
Greetings from the Cape.
___________________________________________________
Dr. Alvin Masarira, Department of Civil Engineering
University of Cape Town, 7701 Cape Town, South Africa.
Tel.(+27)21-650-2585/4 ; Fax.(+27)21-689-7471
Email: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
___________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:12:41 +2
From: "Lulama R. Zantsi" <wels124@xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Subject: Re: God's Church...
Alvin,
I would more than agree with your summary of my input. It is very
accurate. Thanks.
To know Him and make Him known.
Lulama
"this humble learner"
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:35:43 +0200
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: RE: Sabbath
Nick,
I have not been able to keep up with the debates.
Last night I was in a church meeting and someone mentioned that the
Spirit of Prophecy "forbids" fasting on the Sabbath Day. I have not yet
had time to investigate ( I will be investigating myself) this but
perhaps you or someone out there can find this out faster.
Even so, come Lord Jesus!!!!
Andrew
>>> "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com> 10/12/99 01:12PM >>>
San,
As to how far deeper you dug about the Ten Commandments is not very
clear on
your e-mail. All I can say is that the "reinstatement of the Ten
Commandments" theory is foreign to the Sabbath theology.
When one reads the books of Luke and Matthew one discovers that the
controversy about the Sabbath was not about the validity thereof, but
about
the manner of keeping the Sabbath. The healing that took place on the
Sabbath and the food that was given on the Sabbath clarify how the
Sabbath
should be regarded. I do not remember anywhere Jesus nullifying or
reinstating the Sabbath, but I know of many places where Jesus showed
how
Sabbathkeeping should be like. At the end I know that the Sabbath will
be
kept in heaven. As the Sabbath was there at creation(Gen.2:1-3), during
the
exodus of the Israelites from Egypt to the Promised Land, during
Isaia's
time(Isaia 58), during Jesus time(Luke 4:16), and during Paul's
time(Acts
17:2), it is not surprising that Isaia would foresee that there will
be
weekly Sabbathkeeping when God set up the new heaven and earth. Anyway
how
could James write(James 2:10) and say if you break one commandment you
are
guilty of all, if the Sabbath was excluded from the Ten Commandments?
I have attached a comprehensive article by Dr. Bacchoicchi for further
clarification.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Easton's [mailto:s.easton@home.com]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:50 PM
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] sabbath
From: The Easton's <s.easton@home.com>
I had some unsettling news during the weekend...
A friend of mine was talking with me about the ten commandments and
stated
that, of all the commandments.. Jesus reinstated them all EXCEPT
keeping the
sabbath holy. Jesus even got in trouble with the pharisiees on the
Sabbath
for not resting..... for healing and for picking wheat. He went on to
explain that Jesus taught that we are now his temple and we are to take
rest
in Him.
As I was digging deeper into scripture about this....it seems to be
true.
Anyone have any thoughts on this one?
San
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:38:03 +0200
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Cape Conference Clips
In this Issue:
SAD NEWS
PRAYER REQUESTS
LIVING LINK / LEWENDE SKAKEL
NEWS FROM LOERIE PARK
NEWS FROM GOODWOOD
NEW CONNECTION
DEI GRATIA
PREPARE / ENRICH
NEWS FROM ANDREWS
STATISTICS FROM ADVENTIST.FM
PLANNING FOR 2000
SAD NEWS
Denzil Swanepoel passed away on Friday. His funeral takes place this afternoon at 14:30. On behalf of the Cape Conference we wish to extend our condolences to Ina, Jacques, Rubert and Delia as they lay their son and brother to rest.
PRAYER REQUESTS
JOSEF BIRKENSTOCK (Ray & Dawn Jerrard, Australia)
Last night I sent out a prayer request for Pr Josef Birkenstock, asking you to pray for him and his family as he was due to have surgery for a tumour in the bowel this morning.
We just had word early this morning that the surgery will now take place Thursday, 14th October. He apparently is a lot worse than we were first informed and is very weak, having lost 12 kgs in less than a month, and not being able to eat or keep anything down. - So they are delaying surgery to try to build him up little.
LIVING LINK / LEWENDE SKAKEL (Pastor Baxen)
The second and last issue of the Living Link for the year 1999 is due. Please ask your congregation to send in news, articles, letters, photographs, etc. It would be appreciated if these could be received by 12 November 1999./
Die tweede en laaste uitgawe vir die jaar 1999 van die Lewende Skakel moet weer verskyn. Sal u asseblief u gemeente vra om nuus, artikels, briewe, foto's, ens. in te stuur; sodat ons dit asb. teen 12 November 1999 kan ontvang.
NEWS FROM LOERIE PARK, GEORGE (Urma Williams)
Pr Martin Retief was asked to broadcast a sermon on our local radio
station. This will be recorded on WEDNEDAY, 13/10 to be broadcast on
Sunday 17th - and we are starting our satelite programme on Monday 18/10!
What better timing and advertising could the Lord had for us? !
NEWS FROM GOODWOOD
Goodwood Church celebrated their 50th Anniversary this past Sabbath. We praise the Lord for the many years that this church and its members have stood as a witness to glorify God!
NEW CONNECTION (Brenda-Louise Pretorius)
We are a group of youth from the Tygerburg Church doing childrens ministry mainly with puppets. We are active among youth as well. We recently had a project where we collected books for poor countries, Ghana included. We have about 80 Kg's of literature and we would appreciate any help from folks in contributing to covering the postage costs as it gets a bit expensive. For any info or bookings etc they can contact me at Tel: 021 - 96 1855, or pret.fam@mweb.co.za
DEI GRATIA (Francois Oosthuizen)
Do you want great articles, excellent tutorials, fun stuff, cool reports, plus lots more?
Then get the latest edition of Dei Gratia.
Yes, the 2nd edition(September/October) is now available for the incredible price of only R5! Better and thicker than ever before this edition is once again filled with all your old favourites plus lots of new stuff. Order your copy today to avoid disappointment!
For ordering info phone/fax (021) 988-4663 or e-mail mailto:youthmag@hotmail.com. Alternatively you can visit our website for a free preview and ordering info at http://www.tagnet.org/deigratia.
PREPARE / ENRICH
Last Friday Pastors Peter Dalbock, Alan Parker, Jaco Martiz and Shirley Allen attended training by FAMSA (Family and Marriage Society of South Africa) so that they can be better equipped to help couples preparing for marriage or those who have already been married for two years. If you are preparing for marriage please contact them if you would like to do the Prepare/Enrich programme.
NEWS FROM ANDREWS (Pastor Marek Piotrowski)
Thank you for the the good wishes. I did pass and my diss was accepted with some corrections. I found the 2 hour session quite gruelling--but it is now something of the past! I will march next June.
STATISTICS FROM ADVENTIST.FM (Errol van Eck)
Statistics show rapid growth
Statistics just released show the ratio of Adventists to non-Adventists is
dropping sharply world-wide. In 1994 there was one Adventist for every 669
people on the planet. Five years later, according to the latest statistics,
this figure had dropped to one in 583. The statistics also show a dramatic
increase in the number of baptisms per hour. Five years ago there were 71.8
baptisms and confessions of faith every hour. Last year, this had increased
dramatically to 93.4 every hour. Projections suggest that this year we are
probably having about 100 baptisms every hour.
Adventist TV in South America
Adventist TV programs are now being broadcast 24 hours a day in Peru, Argentina
and Columbia. The programs are relayed via satellite to land based stations
mainly in small country areas.
Chinese hire online evangelist
jwash@pacific.net.hk The Chinese Union Mission has hired an Internet evangelist
to cope with the large response to its new website. In the first two months
online, its new website has had 8000 visitors with 4-5 prayer requests and
Bible Study requests per day. "The potential is increadible for online
evangelism," says John Ash, the Chinese Union Missions Communication Director.
"Where in 1995 there was virtually no private internet use in mainland China,
by the end of this year there will be 12 million Internet users." The new
internet evangelist will respond personally to mail and connect interests with
a local church in the reader's area. The website is called Village of Hope and
Blessing -- www.vohc.com.
Entered September 13, 1999
PLANNING FOR 2000
If you would like a copy of a year planner on MS Word that has all the special days on the SDA Calendar and important dates please e-mail me for a copy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shirley Allen
Cape Conference
Director of Youth, Children's Ministries, Sabbath School, Personal Ministries and Women's Ministries
PO Box 279
Somerset West
7129
"Remember your Creator during your youth: when all possibilities lie open before you and you can offer all your strength intact for his service. "
Telephone: 021 852 1140
_______________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:46:02 +0200
From: "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com>
Subject: RE: Sabbath
Andrew,
I have managed to track a few of the statements attached below. Please note
that are quotations that I managed to track in the internet without going
deep into the whole subject matter. The last quotation clearly indicates
that the GC can set aside the Sabbath day as a day of fasting for the
church.
The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, page 761, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: To W. C. White, J. E. White and wife
Sabbath next will be a special day of fasting and prayer and earnest labor
for me. And I shall trust in God, who is my helper and my God, for strength.
He has graciously helped me, and I believe He will help me still. In
anticipation I rejoice that the scenes on the day of Pentecost will be
repeated, and that indeed the power of the grace of God will be bestowed in
a wonderful manner.
Ellen G. White: The Early Elmshaven Years Volume 5 1900-1905, page 239,
paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Preparing for the 1903 General Conference
On several occasions Daniells related the experience that came to him at
this time. He set aside Sabbath, March 21, preceding the General Conference
session as a day of special personal fasting and prayer. He felt he must
know his duty. He went to one of the offices in the Pacific Press publishing
house where he could spend the day in study, meditation, and prayer, longing
for some omen that would 240 give him courage to move into the session.
Through the day and into the evening he remained there. As he knelt in a
final prayer, the burden that he might get into true relationship with God's
great work on earth rolled upon his heart.
Ellen G. White Volume 2 The Progressive Years 1862-1876, page 138, paragraph
6
Chapter Title: The Agonizing Year of Captivity
On the following Sabbath [May 19], fasting and prayer was again appointed.
Brother Bates led the meeting. The peace of God shone from his countenance.
Ardent and united supplications went up to the throne of grace. We ceased
not till Brother White came into our midst and testified that the Lord had
untied his hands. Then joy and hopeful expectation shone from his eyes while
he praised the Lord, and all united with him. . . . First-day afternoon he
took part in and stayed during the services, and Second-day he shared in the
ministerial deliberations.
Ellen G. White Volume 3 The Lonely Years 1876-1891, page 11, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: A Whirl of Activity
The clouds and cold drizzle that dampened the Bay cities of northern
California on New Year's Day, 1876, in no way betokened the spirits of James
and Ellen White, who were residing in Oakland. It was the Sabbath and a
special day, a day for the edification and building up of the church, a day
set apart by the General Conference Committee to be spent in prayer,
fasting, and humiliation before God.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Modise [mailto:ModisMA1@telkom.co.za]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 10:36 AM
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: RE: [sa-sda] Sabbath
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
Nick,
I have not been able to keep up with the debates.
Last night I was in a church meeting and someone mentioned that the
Spirit of Prophecy "forbids" fasting on the Sabbath Day. I have not yet
had time to investigate ( I will be investigating myself) this but
perhaps you or someone out there can find this out faster.
Even so, come Lord Jesus!!!!
Andrew
>>> "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com> 10/12/99 01:12PM >>>
San,
As to how far deeper you dug about the Ten Commandments is not very
clear on
your e-mail. All I can say is that the "reinstatement of the Ten
Commandments" theory is foreign to the Sabbath theology.
When one reads the books of Luke and Matthew one discovers that the
controversy about the Sabbath was not about the validity thereof, but
about
the manner of keeping the Sabbath. The healing that took place on the
Sabbath and the food that was given on the Sabbath clarify how the
Sabbath
should be regarded. I do not remember anywhere Jesus nullifying or
reinstating the Sabbath, but I know of many places where Jesus showed
how
Sabbathkeeping should be like. At the end I know that the Sabbath will
be
kept in heaven. As the Sabbath was there at creation(Gen.2:1-3), during
the
exodus of the Israelites from Egypt to the Promised Land, during
Isaia's
time(Isaia 58), during Jesus time(Luke 4:16), and during Paul's
time(Acts
17:2), it is not surprising that Isaia would foresee that there will
be
weekly Sabbathkeeping when God set up the new heaven and earth. Anyway
how
could James write(James 2:10) and say if you break one commandment you
are
guilty of all, if the Sabbath was excluded from the Ten Commandments?
I have attached a comprehensive article by Dr. Bacchoicchi for further
clarification.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Easton's [mailto:s.easton@home.com]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:50 PM
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] sabbath
From: The Easton's <s.easton@home.com>
I had some unsettling news during the weekend...
A friend of mine was talking with me about the ten commandments and
stated
that, of all the commandments.. Jesus reinstated them all EXCEPT
keeping the
sabbath holy. Jesus even got in trouble with the pharisiees on the
Sabbath
for not resting..... for healing and for picking wheat. He went on to
explain that Jesus taught that we are now his temple and we are to take
rest
in Him.
As I was digging deeper into scripture about this....it seems to be
true.
Anyone have any thoughts on this one?
San
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
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The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
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_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:57:09 +0200
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
Subject: Sabbath Wedding
Fellow Christians,
I have been enjoying your opinions on almost all the subjects we have
been deliberating with. I do not doubt it - I am happy I subscribed.
Reading what Jerry has just written in response to Nick's concern, I
realized that I have a problem that has to be sorted out asap. It is
more of the problem that deals with church standards and procedures and
here it comes:
Is it accepted to hire an Adventist church for a wedding on Sabbath
afternoon, 16h00min, to non-Adventists who want to make a good
impression for their marriage?
This has just happened and I have been frowning at it such that my face
has begun to get sore and the church (church board) has no problem with
it even the pastor. I have been of an opinion that the Sabbath is a day
to celebrate God's supremacy, creatorship and lordship over our planet
and lives. I believed that things like weddings could be conducted on
Sunday because marrying parties are the centre of concentration than
their creator. Now, hiring the church out to non-Adventists on this
sacred day when there are programmes that have to be conducted is more
than comprehensible for me.
Am I critisizing something which Christ would have done similarly or
worse? Please I need your help. You can give me the stand of the
church as far as the Church Manual if you wish.
I want to know him more,
Lungani
>>> "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@umdnj.edu> 10/12/99 04:19PM >>>
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Nick,
I just want to re-echo the words of Alvin. I believe that we can learn
a lot from other denominations. The Bible teaches us to learn from the
ants, how I wish we could learn from the Jehovah's witness. I have this
feeling that the majority of people who are currently Adventist are
going to be lost, and that the majority of those who are going to be
saved are not (currently) or have never been SDA members.
One of the major Christian decisions that I have made few months ago
was after I listened to sermon from a Baptist pastor over the radio.
I also took some major decision with regard to health and temperance
after listening to secular people.
So, I believe God can use anyone even Balak to bring His message
(verbally or in practice) to us.
As Adventist we think we have absolute truth (copyright to the truth),
however my attitude is different, I see myself as a student (like
Lulama, a humble leaner), and God can use even the stones to teach me.
In fact, as I stated before, When I hold a Bible study with a
non-Adventist I made it very clear that we will only follow what the
Bible says. If we find out from the Bible that I am wrong in some of my
beliefs (including the Sabbath) I am prepared to change immediately; I
won't even consult the pastor. I have no allegiance to the church; my
allegiance is to God and His word. The only reason I am still a member
of this church is because I have searched the scriptures and proofed it
to be the true church. If my studies reveal something different I am
prepared to change (even joining a Sunday church) immediately.
In a traditional Adventism that's scary, I guess some out there might
be getting worried about having a List Administrator with such views.
I am convinced that this is what Adventism is all about. The Adventist
church does not teach people to just follow the tradition, but we all
need to study and know the truth for ourselves. When we know that truth
(whatever that means) we won't be afraid.
How I wish we could have:
Zeal to preach the gospel like the Jehovah's witness or the
Church of the latter day saints
The dedication of the Catholic monks
The knowledge and understanding of the scriptures of Adventists
To me more like Jesus!
Jeremiah
>>> "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com> 10/12 5:45 AM >>>
From: "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com>
Jongimpi,
I have been worried about a question that pertains to our self
condemnation
as Adventists. When we get some challenges we normally like to refer
to
other people of other denominations. I have always believed that we are
or
must be unique and of special character in regard to the reason for
which
God called the Adventist church into existence.
When we refer to other denominations when talking about ourselves, for
example evangelism, we would refer to the way Jehovah's Witnesses do
their
work and how successful they have been. Specifically, when Alvin refers
to
our "arrogance" as against other denominations this corroborates what I
have
been thinking about. What troubles me most is that I had to advise our
church board this past weekend not to focus on how other Jehovah's
Witnesses
function, but look at how our programs function around the world for
soul
winning purposes.
Please help me about this one because I feel it has become abundant
practice
in our church.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jongimpi Papu [mailto:j.d.papu@mweb.co.za]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 11:14 AM
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] ME, MYSELF, I
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
Alvin
I must apologise for not fulfilling the promise I made on Sabbath, I
was
nowhere near a computer yesterday. Having said that, you are welcome
and
we look forward to your humble contributions, we are a big family here,
and
you are a part of that family. May God bless you in all your
endeavours and
may His name be glorified.
Jongimpi
-----Original Message-----
From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:37 PM
Subject: [sa-sda] ME, MYSELF, I
>From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
>
>Hie Folks,
>
>I've just subscribed to the discussion forum a few minutes ago and
maybe
>should take some moments to introduce myself. My name is Alvin
Masarira,
>male, early 30s, single, and originally from across the Limpopo
>(Zimbabwe). I have just joined (as from July 99) the Department of
Civil
>Engineering of the University of Cape Town as a PostDoctoral
Researcher
>(in Structural Steel Engineering) but also do some lecturing. I
studied
>and lived in Germany for about 11 years (1987 - 1998) and spent
another
>1,5 years in the USA.
>I am a dedicated Seventh Day Adventist and my faith and relationship
>with Christ plays a very BIG role in my life (or at least I try to
make
>it THE decisive factor in all I do). I believe we as Adventist have
been
>called for a special purpose into existence and have a special
message
>for this world. But at the same time I believe God uses and is using
>other Christians (of varoius denominations) to further His work and
>bring His work to completion. Therefore I don't believe that we
>Adventists have a reason to be "arrogant" (sorry for the term!!) and
>think we are better than the Methodists, or Anglicans or Baptists
etc.
>We should be humble and be grateful for the light we have and always
>remembering that "from whom much has been given will greater
>accountability be expected".
>That should surfice for now and I hope we will have exciting and
>enriching discussions on this forum.
>Wish everybody (who is in my time zone) a pleasant evening.
>___________________________________________________
>Dr. Alvin Masarira, Department of Civil Engineering
>University of Cape Town, 7701 Cape Town, South Africa.
>Tel.(+27)21-650-2585/4 ; Fax.(+27)21-689-7471
>Email: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
>___________________________________________________
>
>>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to
sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
The King is even at the door!
====
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To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:12:03 +0200
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
Subject: RE: Sabbath
Nick,
Thanks, brother.
Andrew
>>> "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com> 10/13/99 11:46AM >>>
From: "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com>
Andrew,
I have managed to track a few of the statements attached below. Please
note
that are quotations that I managed to track in the internet without
going
deep into the whole subject matter. The last quotation clearly
indicates
that the GC can set aside the Sabbath day as a day of fasting for the
church.
The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, page 761, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: To W. C. White, J. E. White and wife
Sabbath next will be a special day of fasting and prayer and earnest
labor
for me. And I shall trust in God, who is my helper and my God, for
strength.
He has graciously helped me, and I believe He will help me still. In
anticipation I rejoice that the scenes on the day of Pentecost will be
repeated, and that indeed the power of the grace of God will be
bestowed in
a wonderful manner.
Ellen G. White: The Early Elmshaven Years Volume 5 1900-1905, page
239,
paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Preparing for the 1903 General Conference
On several occasions Daniells related the experience that came to him
at
this time. He set aside Sabbath, March 21, preceding the General
Conference
session as a day of special personal fasting and prayer. He felt he
must
know his duty. He went to one of the offices in the Pacific Press
publishing
house where he could spend the day in study, meditation, and prayer,
longing
for some omen that would 240 give him courage to move into the
session.
Through the day and into the evening he remained there. As he knelt in
a
final prayer, the burden that he might get into true relationship with
God's
great work on earth rolled upon his heart.
Ellen G. White Volume 2 The Progressive Years 1862-1876, page 138,
paragraph
6
Chapter Title: The Agonizing Year of Captivity
On the following Sabbath [May 19], fasting and prayer was again
appointed.
Brother Bates led the meeting. The peace of God shone from his
countenance.
Ardent and united supplications went up to the throne of grace. We
ceased
not till Brother White came into our midst and testified that the Lord
had
untied his hands. Then joy and hopeful expectation shone from his eyes
while
he praised the Lord, and all united with him. . . . First-day afternoon
he
took part in and stayed during the services, and Second-day he shared
in the
ministerial deliberations.
Ellen G. White Volume 3 The Lonely Years 1876-1891, page 11, paragraph
1
Chapter Title: A Whirl of Activity
The clouds and cold drizzle that dampened the Bay cities of northern
California on New Year's Day, 1876, in no way betokened the spirits of
James
and Ellen White, who were residing in Oakland. It was the Sabbath and
a
special day, a day for the edification and building up of the church, a
day
set apart by the General Conference Committee to be spent in prayer,
fasting, and humiliation before God.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Modise [mailto:ModisMA1@telkom.co.za]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 10:36 AM
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: RE: [sa-sda] Sabbath
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
Nick,
I have not been able to keep up with the debates.
Last night I was in a church meeting and someone mentioned that the
Spirit of Prophecy "forbids" fasting on the Sabbath Day. I have not
yet
had time to investigate ( I will be investigating myself) this but
perhaps you or someone out there can find this out faster.
Even so, come Lord Jesus!!!!
Andrew
>>> "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@anglogold.com> 10/12/99 01:12PM >>>
San,
As to how far deeper you dug about the Ten Commandments is not very
clear on
your e-mail. All I can say is that the "reinstatement of the Ten
Commandments" theory is foreign to the Sabbath theology.
When one reads the books of Luke and Matthew one discovers that the
controversy about the Sabbath was not about the validity thereof, but
about
the manner of keeping the Sabbath. The healing that took place on the
Sabbath and the food that was given on the Sabbath clarify how the
Sabbath
should be regarded. I do not remember anywhere Jesus nullifying or
reinstating the Sabbath, but I know of many places where Jesus showed
how
Sabbathkeeping should be like. At the end I know that the Sabbath will
be
kept in heaven. As the Sabbath was there at creation(Gen.2:1-3),
during
the
exodus of the Israelites from Egypt to the Promised Land, during
Isaia's
time(Isaia 58), during Jesus time(Luke 4:16), and during Paul's
time(Acts
17:2), it is not surprising that Isaia would foresee that there will
be
weekly Sabbathkeeping when God set up the new heaven and earth. Anyway
how
could James write(James 2:10) and say if you break one commandment you
are
guilty of all, if the Sabbath was excluded from the Ten Commandments?
I have attached a comprehensive article by Dr. Bacchoicchi for further
clarification.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Easton's [mailto:s.easton@home.com]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 1999 5:50 PM
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] sabbath
From: The Easton's <s.easton@home.com>
I had some unsettling news during the weekend...
A friend of mine was talking with me about the ten commandments and
stated
that, of all the commandments.. Jesus reinstated them all EXCEPT
keeping the
sabbath holy. Jesus even got in trouble with the pharisiees on the
Sabbath
for not resting..... for healing and for picking wheat. He went on to
explain that Jesus taught that we are now his temple and we are to
take
rest
in Him.
As I was digging deeper into scripture about this....it seems to be
true.
Anyone have any thoughts on this one?
San
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
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The King is even at the door!
====
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To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
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_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:38:40 +0200
From: Alvin Masarira <amasar@eng.uct.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Sabbath Wedding
Hie,
Lungani Mfeka wrote:
> Is it accepted to hire an Adventist church for a wedding on Sabbath
> afternoon, 16h00min, to non-Adventists who want to make a good
> impression for their marriage?
>
Let me make the issue more complicated by asking if it is "acceptable" (I
couldn't find a better word) for Adventists to have their wedding on a
Sabbath in an SDA Church even if they don't have pay anything to the church
(since they are members of that particular local church)? I have actually
witnessed a couple of Adventist weddings, in Adventist churches on a
Sabbath.
Alvin.
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
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