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There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. "Not Always Necessary to Bow" - EGW
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@xxx.xx.xxx
2. Re: God's family = Church?
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@xxx.xx.xxx
3. FW: GOD IS LISTENING
From: Viwe Jakavula <viwe.jakavula@xxxxxxx.xx.xxx
4. Re: Cyber Evangelism
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
5. Re: God's family = Church?
From: The Easton's <s.easton@xxxx.xxxx
6. Welcome
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
7. Re: God's family = Church?
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@xxx.xx.xxx
8. Re: Cyber Evangelism
From: The Easton's <s.easton@xxxx.xxxx
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:40:25 +0000 (GMT)
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: "Not Always Necessary to Bow" - EGW
Friends,
Nick raised an interesting issue about kneeling for prayer. Some
people, especially those who call themselves "reformers", believe that
standing while praying is wrong (or is sin). I don't agree with this one
though I must quicky state that I believe that kneeling in prayer is more
appropriate.
I understand Mrs White to be saying that we should do our best to kneel in
public worship for this is one way of showing respect to the Almighty.
She wrote:
"To bow down when in prayer to God is the proper attitude to occupy."
Selected Messages Book 2 pg 312, chapter title: Proper Attitude in Prayer
There were instances where EGW and the congregation prayed standing. For
example, in Selected Messages Book 3, page 269, paragraph 3, Chapter
Title: The Propriety of Varying Postures in Prayer
we read
"Ellen White and Audience Standing for Consecration Prayer.--Who now, I
ask, will make a determined effort to obtain the higher education. Those
who will, make it manifest by rising to your feet. [The congregation
rose.] Here is the whole congregation. May God help you to keep your
pledge. Let us pray."
And in the same chapter (page 266) under the sub-heading "Need Not Always
Kneel" we find the following testimony by someone who worked for her as
secretary from 1902 to 1915:
"We must pray constantly, with a humble mind and a meek and lowly spirit.
We need not wait for an opportunity to kneel before God. We can pray and
talk with the Lord wherever we may be.[* ELDER D. E. ROBINSON, ONE OF
ELLEN WHITE'S SECRETARIES FROM 1902 TO 1915, REPORTED:"
"I HAVE BEEN PRESENT REPEATEDLY AT CAMP MEETINGS AND
GENERAL CONFERENCE SESSIONS IN WHICH SISTER WHITE HERSELF
HAS OFFERED PRAYER WITH THE CONGREGATION STANDING, AND
SHE HERSELF STANDING."--D. E. ROBINSON LETTER, MARCH 4,
1934.]--Letter 342, 1906.
And now listen to her own words in page 267 of the same chapter:
"Not Always Necessary to Bow.--It is not always necessary to bow upon your
knees in order to pray. Cultivate the habit of talking with the Saviour
when you are alone, when you are walking, and when you are busy with your
daily labor." quoted from The Ministry of Healing, pp. 510, 511.
I think "reformers' are "majoring in minors". They load Adventism with a
lot of rules.
He will surely come.
Daniel
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:42:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: God's family = Church?
Jongimpi,
Thanks for your explanation, I'll respond as soon as I've digested your
views.
He will surely come.
Daniel
On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, Jongimpi Papu wrote:
> From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
>
> Dan
> You have raised an interesting question. I would like to think that one
> can still be a member of God's family even if he is not a member of the
> church. Take our children, they are not baptised, but I think they are
> part of God's family, and as such we need to cater for them, nurture bring
> them up in the fear of God. God has actually given us that responsibility,
> they are part of the family. this would also apply to those who are not
> yet baptised,but are coming to the church,learning more about God's way.
> We have responsibility to them too. This can even be extended to include
> those who are under discipline, they are still part of God's family, but may
> not be members of the body, here by members we mean taking active part in
> the building of the body(church).
>
> I think members of God's family are those who are not willingly fighting
> against the church in one way or the other. But I still see a difference
> between church membership and God's family. I cannot say I am willing to
> die for the opinion I have just shared.
>
> That we may be one
>
> Jongimpi
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
> To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
> Cc: Thabo Mokete <smokete@fnb.co.za>; Thulani Kunene
> <thulani.kunene@sasol.com>; Nkanyiso <nkanyiso@mweb.co.za>
> Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 1:59 PM
> Subject: [sa-sda] God's family = Church?
>
>
> >From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
> >
> >Brethren,
> >
> >Last week's SS lesson assured us that we are part of the family of God.
> >This is good news indeed. But the question is, when does this happen?
> >Does it happen immediately after repentance or only after baptism?
> >I struggled to relate this lesson to baptism and church discipline.
> >Is becoming a member of the church the same as being part of the family of
> >God? As far as I know one is not considered a member of the church until
> >he is baptised, and he will lose his membership if he is disfellowshipped.
> >One brother suggested that a person automatically becomes a member of
> >Christ's church when he believes.
> >
> >It does not sound right to say that a new convert (or someboby who has
> >been disfellowshiped) is a member of God's family and not a member of His
> >church. Maybe one should ask what God's family is. Is it the church?
> >
> >Open My Eyes Lord that I may see.
> >
> >Daniel
> >
> >
> >>The King is even at the door!
> >====
> >To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
> >To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
> >To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
> > The King is even at the door!
> ====
> To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
> To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
> To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:14:29 +0100
From: Viwe Jakavula <viwe.jakavula@xxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: FW: GOD IS LISTENING
> > A young man had been to Wednesday night Bible Study. The Pastor had
> > shared about listening to God and obeying the Lord's voice.
> > The young man couldn't help but wonder, "Does God still speak to
> > people?"
> > After service, he went out with some friends for coffee and pie and they
> discussed the message. Several different ones talked about how God had led
> them in different ways. It was about ten o'clock when the young man
> started
> driving home. Sitting in his car, he just began
> > to pray, "God.. If you still speak to people speak to me. I will listen.
> I will do my best to obey." As he drove down the main street of his town,
> he
> had the strangest thought..."Stop and buy a gallon of milk." He shook his
> head and said out loud, "God, is that you?"
> > He didn't get a reply and started on toward home. But, again the
> thought,
> "Buy a gallon of milk." The young man thought about Samuel and how he
> didn't
> recognize the voice of God,
> > and how little Samuel ran to Eli. "Okay, God, in case that is you, I
> will
> buy the milk."
> > It didn't seem like too hard a test of obedience. He could always use
> the
> milk.
> > He stopped and purchased the gallon of milk and started off toward home.
> As he passed Seventh street, he again felt the urge, "Turn down that
> street." This is crazy he thought and drove on past the intersection.
> Again,
> he felt that he should turn down seventh street. At the next
> > intersection, he turned back and headed down Seventh. Half jokingly, he
> said out loud, "Okay, God, I will." He drove several blocks, when
> suddenly,
> he felt like he should stop. He pulled over to the curb and looked around.
> He was in a semi-commercial area of town. It wasn't the best but it wasn't
> the worst of neighborhoods either. The businesses were closed and most of
> the houses looked dark like the people were already in bed. Again, he
> sensed
> something, "Go and give the milk to the people in the house across the
> street." The young man looked at the house. It was dark and it looked like
> the people were either gone or they were already asleep. He started to
> open
> the door and then sat back in the car seat. "Lord,
> > this is insane. Those people are asleep and if I wake them up, they are
> going to be mad and I will look stupid." Again, he felt like he should go
> and give the milk. Finally, he opened the door, "Okay God, if this is you,
> I
> will go to the door and I will give them the milk. If you want me to look
> like a crazy person, okay. I want to be obedient. I guess that will count
> for
> > something but if they don't answer right away, I am out of here." He
> walked across the street and rang the bell. He could hear some noise
> inside.
> A man's voice yelled out, "Who is it? What do you want?" Then the door
> opened before the young man could get away. The man was standing there in
> his jeans and T-shirt. He looked like he just got out of bed. He had a
> strange look on his face and he didn't seem too happy to have some
> stranger
> standing on his
> > doorstep. "What is it?" The young man thrust out the gallon of milk,
> "Here, I brought this to
> > you." The man took the milk and rushed down a hall way speaking loudly
> in Spanish. Then, from down the hall, came a woman carrying the milk
> toward
> the kitchen. The man was following her holding a baby. The baby was
> crying.
> The man had tears streaming down his face. The man began speaking and half
> crying, "We were just praying. We had some big bills this month
> > and we ran out of money. We didn't have any milk for our baby. I was
> just
> praying and asking God to show me how to get some milk." His wife in the
> kitchen yelled out, "I ask him to send an Angel with some...
> > Are you an Angel?" The young man reached into his wallet and pulled out
> all the money he had on him and put in the man's hand. He turned and
> walked
> back toward his car and the tears were streaming down his face.
> >
> > He knew that God still answers prayers and that God still speaks to His
> people.
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:37:05 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Cyber Evangelism
Lungani,
I tend to agree with Sam, here are some verses to support that position. All of these verses seem to suggests that we already have or have been given eternal live. I believe that when I have been given something I will know it. When Paul came to the end of his journey he wrote ' I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.' Are we only going to know that we have fought a good fight when get to the end of the road? I believe Paul knew that he was fighting a good fight.
Here are the verses
1 John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony: that God has given us
eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the
Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of
the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may [continue to]
believe in the name of the Son of God. NKJV.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He
gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
NKJV
Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved
through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,
John 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should
not perish but have eternal life.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they
shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
I will respond to the issues that you have raised latter if I get a chance.
He is coming!
Jeremiah
>>> "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za> 10/08 2:49 AM >>>
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
San,
I wish to respond to your last contribution concerning one's knowledge
of whether or not he will be saved. You made everything concerning
salvation too easy to me than it should be in reality. I have been of
the same oponion with Jongimpi for some time in my life and these are
the reasons:
1. The very same Jesus did mention that it is not all who say "Lord,
Lord will be saved".
2. And believing, the Bible says that believing is not enough because
even the demons believe and with trembling. The text suggests doing as
an intergral part of salvation, they both seem work hand in hand, in
this case.
3. Mrs E.G. White wrote a statement in one of her books where she says
that there are three things that will surprise those who will get to
heaven, I know you may know them as well, namely
a) That people they expected to find in heaven won't be there,
b) That people they did not expect to be in heaven will be there in
white robes, and lastly
c) That they will find themselves there.
It is c) that surprised me most - it made me think that somehow
whether or not I may think of myself as justified, undergoing
sanctification and hoping to be glorified one day - I still remain
unsure of my salvation because of the perception of myself. She also
says that the more we come to God the more sinful we will see ourselves,
and the more we see this will be the more we need and cling to Him, to
help rid us of our sin. But clinging itself does not make us feel any
holier than the day before but worse than the day before.
That is bound to make me feel uncertain of my salvation - yes I may
long to be with the Savior I have been loving for so long but I am
likely to think of our union as an impossible mission since I do not
seem to be what He wants me to be - I do not seem to qualify. Of
course, there are those who believe in different theories like that:
* one should know immediately when he is saved, which may be true to me
someday before I die, if it is true - that is, and that
* one only needs to believe in Christ as the Lord and the only Savior
then salvation is assured. This is one of the prevalent beliefs
suggesting that you don't have to do anything - just believe and you
are saved - that I don't believe, reffering to Ellen White's statement
on one's nearness with God.
San, I believe that this is a Christian dillema and is more complicated
than we may confess. But as has been mentioned before - it is only God
who knows who will be saved and I am not suggesting predestination.
Lungani
>>> "The Easton's" <s.easton@home.com> 10/07/99 07:27PM >>>
From: The Easton's <s.easton@home.com>
Jongimpi,
I have struggled with this question for many years, and I used to
believe as you do now but I have to disagree with what you have said. We
can have assurance that we are disciples of Christ. In the
bible there are numerous verses, I will list a few and if you would
like more email me privately:
Acts 16: 30-31: He brought them out and asked," Sirs, what must I do to
be saved?" They replied," Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be
saved - you and your household."
Romans 10: 9- 14: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, YOU WILL BE
SAVED. For it is with your heart that you believe and
are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are
saved."
Romans 10:13 : for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be
saved."
Romans 7:25 -8:3 So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's Law,
but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore there is
now no condendemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of Life set me free
from the law of sin and death.
Ephesians 2: 8-9: For it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH
- and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by
works...
I have always been aware of these verses, but is salvation so simple?
yes
Can I believe what the Bible says and have FAITH that I am a Disciple
of God? yes. Will I always obey God? no because I am not perfect and I
will never be, but that is why Jesus died.. so he could
forgive us of all the sin that we will do. (John 3:16) and it is no
longer what we DO but if we believe. If we are not following his leading
but still are believer, than God will show us the right way
to go. Like Jonah, He outright disobeyed God.. but God didn't let him
go that easily and I think That sometimes God allows us to go our oun
way for a time so that we can realize for ourselves how
inadaquate we really are. I also believe that once you are a disciple
of God that it isn't that simple to turn away... like jonah.. and in the
end... God gently leads us back to him. We are justified
by faith.. not of works. and we can never be good enough or do enough
for God.. he has already accepted us by dying for us.. all he asks is to
love him.
Hope to hear your comments on this one!
San
Jongimpi Papu wrote:
> From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
>
> Jerry
> You asked, "Is it possible for a person to be a disciple of Christ
and not
> follow his leading"? Let me answer your question in two ways.
>
> First of all I think it is possible for a person to say that he is
a
> disciple of Christ and yet refuse to follow him. In this case it is
not
> what a person says but what he does that is a real answer to the
question.
>
> Secondly, a person can say he is a disciple of Christ, we may believe
him,
> because of what we see him do, things like preaching, leading in the
church
> and many other good things. He may also believe that he is a
disciple of
> Christ, but Christ can have a different evaluation of the same. In
Matt.
> 7: 21-23, that seems to be the issue. The operative word here is
> deception, person who is deceived does not know that he is deceived,
we read
> that at the end many will be deceived into thinking that they are
> worshipping God only to find out that they are worshipping the beast.
In
> fact even the beast might think that he is worshipping God, for he
also is
> deceived.
>
> Who then is a disciple of Christ? Only Christ knows!!!
>
> If we love one another the whole world will know...
>
> Jongimpi
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mashudu Ravhengani <ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
> To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
> Date: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Cyber Evangelism
>
> >From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
> >
> >Greetings,
> >
> >Apart from the few positive comments, I have not received any
response to
> this suggestion. I suppose there are many ways we can reach-out to
the lost,
> this was just one suggestion. If you have something in mind, please
share it
> with us.
> >
> >Few weeks ago somebody asked a question in our Sabbath school class,
and it
> went like this: "Is it possible to have the Holy Spirit and still not
do
> what is the duty/mission of the Holy Spirit?" We can ask the same
question
> this way. "Is it possible to be a disciple of Christ and still not
follow
> where Christ leads?"
> >How can we really know whether we are disciplines or not? Or will we
find
> out when we get to heaven or hell? Remember there is a difference
between a
> disciple and a church member.
> >
> >He is coming!
> >
> >Jeremiah
> >
> >>>> "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@UMDNJ.EDU> 09/27 3:25 PM >>>
> >From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
> >
> >Dear friends
> >
> >Few weeks we spoke about the need to reach out to professionals or
the
> so-called middle class.
> >Here is my suggestion - cyber evangelism.
> >I suggest that we start a mailing list (and a web site) dedicated
to
> reaching the UN-reached.
> >Instead of it been a discussion list, it will be a study/sermons
list. That
> means that we will send out a sermon or a study once a week to this
list.
> This will be a like church service since most of them to not attend
church.
> >Every week one of our members (SA-SDA members, especially those who
are
> pastors) will prepare a brief homily to send to this list.
> >
> >My request to you.
> >1. Ask your non-Adventist friends, colleagues and relatives if they
will be
> interested in receiving our mails (one mail a week). Send me
> (masabatha@yahoo.com) the email addresses of those who are
interested.
> >2. Send me your brief evangelistic sermons/ study materials/sermon
ideas,
> in future I will request some of you to handle certain topics.
> >3. I am also looking for suggestions for the name of this new
list/web site
> >4. Pray for the success of this evangelist outreach program
> >
> >Unlike SA-SDA, this will be a moderated list, only the moderators
will be
> able to send out mails to this list. The recipients of the mails will
have
> an opportunity to respond to the mails but the response will go to
the
> moderators not to the list.
> >
> >I guess some of you have heard about cyber weddings, we will ask
Pastor
> Papu to conduct cyber baptisms.
> >On a more serious note, Here is an opportunity for all us to
participate in
> evangelism. Few weeks ago somebody asked a question on how we can
reach our
> colleagues, here is the answer. All you need to do is to ask for the
email
> addresses of those who are interested. God will do the rest.
> >If the people won't go to church, then the church must go to the
people.
> >
> >I am very excited about this idea, I believe God will do miracles.
> >
> >Let's all pray for the success of this outreach plan and the
outpouring of
> the Holy Spirit in the Cyber space.
> >
> >Go tell it to the mountains* that Jesus Christ is Lord!
> >
> >Jeremiah
> >
> >The King is even at the door!
> >====
> >To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to
sa-sda@onelist.com
> >To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
> >To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >
> >>The King is even at the door!
> >====
> >To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to
sa-sda@onelist.com
> >To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
> >To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
> > The King is even at the door!
> ====
> To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to
sa-sda@onelist.com
> To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
> To unsubscribe: send a blank email to
wesa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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====
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====
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 08:20:49 -0600
From: The Easton's <s.easton@home.com>
Subject: Re: God's family = Church?
I was just curious... I mean if you ask a new convert if he is now a child of God they usually believes that he is. I mean what is the point of what we are doing now? Should we then just focus on
getting people Baptized??? regardless of belief? I am just wondering if you were raised in the faith or if you were converted. Myself, I was a convert and Let Me Tell You.. I knew , that I knew , That
I knew, I was a child of God: Finally. Then it raises the question of Children who aren't baptized. The bible says that heaven is full of children... I am very sure the majority of them would not be
baptized.
BTW, I am new to the list and I love fellowship. I am hoping this list will clarify and strengthen some of the beliefs that I have and will help me to be a stronger person in Christ. I am married,
have a 1 year old daughter, and am an executive with a non profit Organization dedicated to the Youth of our community. We live in Alberta, Canada.
San
Daniel Dlongolo wrote:
> From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
>
> On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, The Easton's wrote:
>
> > Daniel,
> > when did you first became a "believer"?
> >
> > San
>
> San,
> May you please expand your question or at least tell us what your point
> is? I cannot relate your question to my question(s).
>
> He will surely come.
>
> Daniel
>
>
> > The King is even at the door!
> ====
> To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
> To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
> To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 10:44:08 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Subject: Welcome
Sam wrote:
> BTW, I am new to the list and I love fellowship. I am hoping this list will clarify and strengthen some of the beliefs that I have and will help me to be a stronger person in Christ. I am married,
>have a 1 year old daughter, and am an executive with a non profit Organization dedicated to the Youth of our community. We live in Alberta, Canada.
Sam,
Welcome to SA-SDA family, you are already part of the family.
The King is coming!
Jeremiah
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:55:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
Subject: Re: God's family = Church?
On Fri, 8 Oct 1999, The Easton's wrote:
> From: The Easton's <s.easton@home.com>
>
> I am just wondering if you were raised in the faith or if you were
> converted. Myself, I was a convert and Let Me Tell You.. I knew , that I
> knew , That I knew, I was a child of God: Finally. Then it raises the
> question of Children who aren't baptized. The bible says that heaven is
> full of children... I am very sure the majority of them would not be
> baptized.
Thank you for your clarification, San. I was not born in an adventist
family. I accepted the advent message 13 years ago. Both my parents are
non-Adventists, its only my brother, my two sisters and myself who are
Adventists. We got the message from a relative who used to be very active
in the church but unfortunately left SDA and joined the reformed movement.
The sad news is that he eventually left the "narrow way' and started
drinking. Worst of all we buried him about two months ago. My heart was
very sad to lose such a man who brought almost all our relatives to the
Lord. He was a blessing indeed, no wonder Satan worked day and night
for his soul.
> BTW, I am new to the list and I love fellowship.
> I am hoping this list will clarify and strengthen some of the beliefs
> that I have and will help me to be a stronger person in Christ.
Welcome to the family of God. You'll be blessed indeed. I can testify to
that fact, I joined this list about two months ago but my eyes are already
beginning to see clearly what I could barely see.
> I am married, have a 1 year old daughter, and am an executive with a non
> profit Organization dedicated to the Youth of our community. We live in
> Alberta, Canada.
It's good to hear that you have a daughter. I like children though I'm
not married yet. I'm hoping to get married soon.
I'm working as a computer programmer for a sofware company in
Johannesburg.
God bless you.
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:56:15 -0600
From: The Easton's <s.easton@home.com>
Subject: Re: Cyber Evangelism
I have addressed most points you made.. the email was long so I didn't get to the references you made to Ms. Ellen
1. The very same Jesus did mention that it is not all who say "Lord, Lord will be saved".
If you look at the whole chapter where Jesus made this comment, (Matthew 7) Starting in verse one, He is talking about people who only do good works to be seen by men; those who are hipocrites, and
who paise God with their mouths but their hearts are far from him. And I believe this "talk" continues into verse 21.. not to be taken out of the capter and placed as a statement by itself.
You can read the chapter here:
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=English&version=NIV&search=&passage=Matthew+6
2. And believing, the Bible says that believing is not enough because
even the demons believe and with trembling. The text suggests doing as
an intergral part of salvation, they both seem work hand in hand, in
this case.
this is the best verse I can show you: Galatians 3: 2-11 "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so
foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing--if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and
work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard? Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Understand, then, that
those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through
you." So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do
everything written in the Book of the Law." Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
Faith is enough and the "doing" is a product of the faith. Not equal to it ( not because we HAVE to do things for God but because we love him.)
When it says in the bible we will be judged according to our works it is for rewards.. not condemation. We have a choice to follow God or ourselves.. If we choose God then we get to heaven, based on
alll those scripture verses I have mention before.. just by grace and mercy and faith. That's what the Bible says. and when people say we will be be judged when we get to heaven... my bible says,"ther
is no condemation in Christ...Romans 8:1-2.and thatin Hebews 10:35 it says, "So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.You need to persevere so that when you have done the will
of God, you will receive what he has promised."
I have never read anywhere in the bible that the Children of God will be under a judgement of Sin. face it we are not good enough and can never be doing enough for Christ. All the verses I read about
Christians in heaven are of rewards (of Faithfullness and of good deeds and works...) not punishments because we didn't do enough.. we always fail. but scripture says faith is the key...if we have
faith and persevere in our faith we have a crown in heaven waiting for us. (James 1:21)
Again... the bible says in 1 John 5:13 :
"...that you may know that you have eternal life... "
How can we continue to argue with that???It doesn't say we aren't suppose to know or that we have to doubt.. it says "that we may Know."
1 John 2:28: "...Continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him.."
How can we be confident if we don't take assurance that we are saved???
What you are suggesting is conflicting against scripture.. I have listed numerous verses ( nd I can send you more) where it tells you to know you are a child of God, to have faith you are saved, to be
confident in our salvation.... yet you still do not believe the scriptures.... why do you have so much doubt, when God's word says not once, but many times to take confort in his gift to us. The idea
of grace is hard to accept.. to know we are unworthy and can never be good enough by ourselves so God came to earth to give us the gift of Salvation and all we have to do is believe the price has been
paid in full.. It boggles the mind that God did that for us, sinful us. But he did and it is as simple as that.. It says so in scripture over and over and over.
Your new best friend,
San
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