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There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. Re: Sponsorship?
From: "Vice-Rector for Academic Administration" <vradmit@xxx.xx.xxx
2. Re: Sponsorship?
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
3. Re: Sponsorship?
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
4. SOLDIERING
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
5. Re: RE: Welcome
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
6. Introduction of myself...
From: "Thabo Nale" <nalet@telkom32.telkom.co.za>
7. RE: Sponsorship?
From: Joseph Musandiwa <JosephM@liw.denel.co.za>
8. Re: RE: Welcome
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
9. Re: Sponsorship?
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
10. Re: RE: Welcome
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
11. Re: RE: Sponsorship?
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:29:34 +0200
From: "Vice-Rector for Academic Administration" <vradmit@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Sponsorship?
>To me this seemed like double standards or counter-productive, in one hand
we are preaching Christ to the little children and on the other we are
introducing SAB to them at an early age.
>What is the view of members on this issue? Does the Spirit of prophecy say
anything about sponsorship from such organisation? Does it matter really
matter where the money comes from?
>What about grants from the Government?
With both the grant from Coca-Cola and the sponsorship from the SAB I don't
feel it should be an issue, simply because one doesn't approve of a product
or one of the ingredients in a product. I feel that our focus should rather
be on spreading God's good news than on caffiene and beer. Many sponsors
require an ad for their product to be on prominent display, as one of the
conditions of the sponsorship. The fact that SAB is advertised does not
mean all the kids will go out and buy beer - this remains the responsibility
of the parents and educators in showing them the right way and helping them
make right choices in life.
Perhaps if our church members were more generous in giving money towards
these projects there would be no need to seek sponsorship from so-called
"shady" companies. I think that this is a problem that needs to be
addressed, instead of worrying about what company donates funds that help
spread the Word.
This is the end time! We do not have time to focus on trivial matters or
get distracted from our task! Our energies should be directed heavenwards!
God can use many means to help us spread His good news - we need to focus on
that and get His work done!
Dawn
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:33:32 +0200
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@xxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Sponsorship?
What about those who work for Coca Cola, must they be disfellowshipped? Is
Coca Cola a product or a Company? Coke has caffeine, what about
Powerade, which is also a Coca Cola product? Well maybe it is bottled and
not produced by Coca Cola. Shall we then boycott Coca Cola because it
produces as one of its products, Coke ? If consistency is the name of the
game, what are we going to boycott next?
Let us Pick on "Pick n Pay" Must we run away from Pick n Pay because it
sells amongst its items pork and even meat for that matter. Well you can
only pay for that which you have picked, is that not so?
Well for the student who has been picked by Coca Cola for the scholarship so
that he cannot pay, I say Peace. As for SAB, I think I do concur with you,
maybe it was an ill advised thing to do.
I hope the student will not be required to put Coca Cola on his forehead or
hand.
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: Mashudu Ravhengani <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 3:58 PM
Subject: [sa-sda] Sponsorship?
>From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
>
>Greetings,
>
>In one of our news items yesterday there was an item about the scholarship
from Coca-Cola (see the news clip below). To me this is not a big issue,
however it reminds of what happen few years ago when I was a student in Cape
Town. One of the churches around Cape Town received a sponsorship from SAB
(South African Breweries) to build a Pre-School or Creche. Inside this well
built Pre-School there is an Advertisement for SAB. This really shocked me,
and since I was not a member there was nothing I could say.
>To me this seemed like double standards or counter-productive, in one hand
we are preaching Christ to the little children and on the other we are
introducing SAB to them at an early age.
>What is the view of members on this issue? Does the Spirit of prophecy say
anything about sponsorship from such organisation? Does it matter really
matter where the money comes from?
>What about grants from the Government?
>
>>Coca-Cola award
>>A student at Southwestern Adventist University will receive a $20,000
scholarship from the Coca-Cola Foundation. One scholarship has >been awarded
for every independent college in Texas. Ironically, many Adventists object
to Coca-Cola because of its caffine content.
>
>The King is even at the door!
>
>Jeremiah
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>Create a list for FRIENDS & FAMILY...
>...and YOU can WIN $100 to Amazon.com. For details, go to
>http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The King is even at the door!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:52:55 +0200
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@xxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Sponsorship?
What about those who work for Coca Cola, must they be disfellowshipped? Is
Coca Cola a product or a Company? Coke has caffeine, what about
Powerade, which is also a Coca Cola product? Well maybe it is bottled and
not produced by Coca Cola. Shall we then boycott Coca Cola because it
produces as one of its products, Coke ? If consistency is the name of the
game, what are we going to boycott next?
Let us Pick on "Pick n Pay" Must we run away from Pick n Pay because it
sells amongst its items pork and even meat for that matter. Well you can
only pay for that which you have picked, is that not so?
Well for the student who has been picked by Coca Cola for the scholarship so
that he cannot pay, I say Peace. As for SAB, I think I do concur with you,
maybe it was an ill advised thing to do.
I hope the student will not be required to put Coca Cola on his forehead or
hand.
Cheers
-----Original Message-----
From: Mashudu Ravhengani <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Thursday, August 12, 1999 3:58 PM
Subject: [sa-sda] Sponsorship?
>From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
>
>Greetings,
>
>In one of our news items yesterday there was an item about the scholarship
from Coca-Cola (see the news clip below). To me this is not a big issue,
however it reminds of what happen few years ago when I was a student in Cape
Town. One of the churches around Cape Town received a sponsorship from SAB
(South African Breweries) to build a Pre-School or Creche. Inside this well
built Pre-School there is an Advertisement for SAB. This really shocked me,
and since I was not a member there was nothing I could say.
>To me this seemed like double standards or counter-productive, in one hand
we are preaching Christ to the little children and on the other we are
introducing SAB to them at an early age.
>What is the view of members on this issue? Does the Spirit of prophecy say
anything about sponsorship from such organisation? Does it matter really
matter where the money comes from?
>What about grants from the Government?
>
>>Coca-Cola award
>>A student at Southwestern Adventist University will receive a $20,000
scholarship from the Coca-Cola Foundation. One scholarship has >been awarded
for every independent college in Texas. Ironically, many Adventists object
to Coca-Cola because of its caffine content.
>
>The King is even at the door!
>
>Jeremiah
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>Create a list for FRIENDS & FAMILY...
>...and YOU can WIN $100 to Amazon.com. For details, go to
>http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The King is even at the door!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: SOLDIERING
Greetings!
Here is something I received in the mail recently, I just thought it
can be a good presentation for Sabbath School or AY,
May you all enjoy your Sabat!!!
SOLDIERING
I am a soldier in the army of my God.
The Lord Jesus Christ is my Commanding Officer.
The Holy Bible is my code of conduct.
Faith, Prayer and the Word are my weapons of Warfare.
I have been taught by the Holy Spirit, trained by experience, tried
by adversity and tested by fire.
I am a volunteer in this army, and I am enlisted for eternity.
I will either retire in this army at the rapture or die in this Army;
but I will not get out, sell out, be talked out, or pushed out. I am
faithful, reliable, capable and dependable.
If my God needs me, I am there: if He needs me in Sabbath school, to
teach children, work with the youth, help adults or just sit and
learn.
He can use me, because I am there!
I am a soldier.
I am not a baby.
I do not need to be pampered, petted, primed up, pumped up, picked up
or pepped up.
I am a soldier.
No one has to call me, remind me, write me, visit me, entice me or
lure me.
I am a soldier.
I am not a wimp.
I am in place, saluting my King, obeying
His orders, praising His name and building His kingdom!
No one has to send me flowers, gifts, food, cards, candy or give me
handouts.
I do not need to be cuddled, cradled, cared for or catered to.
I am committed.
I can not have my feelings hurt bad enough to turn me around.
I cannot be discouraged enough to turn me aside.
I cannot lose enough to cause me to quit.
When Jesus called me into this army, I had nothing.
If I end up with nothing, I will still come out ahead.
I will win. My God will supply all my needs.
I am more than a conqueror.
I will always triumph.
I can do all things through Christ.
Devils cannot defeat me.
People cannot disillusion me.
Weather cannot weary me. Sickness cannot stop me.
Battles cannot beat me.
Money cannot buy me.
Governments cannot silence me and hell cannot handle me!
I am a soldier. Even death cannot destroy me.
For when my commander calls me from this battlefield, He will promote
me to a captain and then allow me to rule with Him.
I am a soldier, in the army, and I'm marching, claiming victory.
I will not give up.
I will not turn around.
I am a soldier, marching heaven bound.
Here I stand!
Will you stand with me?
"Joy is peace dancing and peace is joy at rest."--F. B. Meyer
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:47:32 +0200
From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: RE: Welcome
Sam,
The solution to the riddle is to find out why people don't attend the
crusades. The problem is that our ministry is often times not needs
based. For example, out tendency is to identify "unentered areas" and
put up a tent for a crusade. This is most of the time not based on a
proper needs analysis, in your field it would be a due dilligence
report. Some of the people you invite to the crusade would like to
attend the but have more pressing needs like putting food on the table
for their children. I can imagine that some of them are perhaps
wondering why we are not following the example of Jesus. Christ
addressed the basic needs of people first. Perhaps we need to think of
anti-poverty, anti-crime, counselling, skills development and job
creation programmes before we talk of crusades. Our needs are not
necessarily other people's needs. The art of fishing depends critically
on understanding the environment, behaviour and the type of fish you are
trying to catch, that will inform you as to what kind of bait to use and
when to throw the fishing rod into the water. We need to see human
beings (God's children) first before we can see targets for baptism
(statistics)!!!!
The beauty of the above is that it fully complements "seek ye first the
kingdom of God and all else will be added unto you". More of that later
if you are interested!!!!
God bless
Andrew Modise
>>> "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu> 08/10/99 04:07PM >>>
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Sam,
What do you mean by inflatrating their churches?
You mean you will pretend to be their member? Sing as they sing, dance
as they do?
Won't it be living a lie? fooling them by prentending to be one of
them?
Here is the great philosophical question: Is it right to fool people
for their own good?
Peace!
Jeremiah
>>> Sam Mthimkulu <Sammth@tnt.ac.za> 08/10 2:59 AM >>>
Greetings
I would like to appreciate the opportunity given to us to share
whatever
news or opinions we have without censorship.
Introducing Samuel Molefe Mthunzi Mthimkhulu,known as Sam,i grew up in
Tornado NW and moved to Pretoria in '90 and studied at TNT,I am
currently working at the same company from 95 till today working as
the
Internal Auditor.i am unmarried(soon my status will change pray for
me)my interest are evangelism,social discussion.
I want to share something with you that is bothering me for we have
crusades and people do not attend i was thinking what about
infiltration
to this churches?i hope you will help.
May God bless you
Mthunzi
--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
----------------------------
ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The King is even at the door!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:13:12 +0200
From: "Thabo Nale" <nalet@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Introduction of myself...
Greetings to one and all,
My name is Thabo Nale. I only have one name, which makes it easier to
responde when anyone calls me. I am working in the Telkom Development
Laboratory as an Electronic Development Engineer. I studied at the
University of Natal in Durban.
I am a born Adventist but I converted in the beginning of 1995 while I
was still studying. Ever since then I never regretted walking with the
Lord.
I am currently single, but I'm looking forward to a marriage life with a
wonderful lady in my life. Don't worry, in the fullness of time, I will
let you know what's on my mind right now.
Both my parents are still alive and I'm very grateful to the Lord for
them.
I guess that's how far my introduction goes. I believe the rest will be
picked up as time goes on and as we get to know each other even better.
I'm glad to be in this mailing list and my the Good Lord pour His
blessing on this endeavour.
Christian regards
Thabo Nale - Dev. Engineer
Telkom Development Laboratory
eMail: nalet@telkom.co.za
Tel: +27 12 529 7500
Cell: +27 82 373 0840
Fax: +27 12 548 0065
***** See our Products at: www.lab.telkom.co.za *****
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:28:39 +0200
From: Joseph Musandiwa <JosephM@xxx.xxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: RE: Sponsorship?
The issue of sponsoships particularly from "questionable companies" is a
complicated one. In fact it
reminds me of one of the prominant SDA proffesionals, who came to our
college some years ago as a guest speaker. Amongst other topics, he
addressesed the topic ''Why was he working for SAB'. Without knowing
exactly who SAB were, I immediately concluded he was in a justification
campaign. However, after looking at who the SAB are in terms of other
companies they own, one had to pause and rethink.
The bible teaches us that all the 'monies' in this world, that is gold
and silver belongs to God. However, we must be cautious and know where
to draw the line. I am tempted to think that, If a weaker brother goes
gambling at Sun City, and probably wins R 1 mil, must the church
accept tithe from such money. Well, I dont know.
If I may be in the meeting to decide, whether to accept money from SAB,
I think I can urge the church
to take it, but refuse to advertise their beer products.
TJMusandiwa
> ----------
> From: Mashudu Ravhengani[SMTP:Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu]
> Reply To: sa-sda@onelist.com
> Sent: 12 August 1999 03:55
> To: sa-sda@onelist.com
> Subject: [sa-sda] Sponsorship?
>
> From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
>
> Greetings,
>
> In one of our news items yesterday there was an item about the
> scholarship from Coca-Cola (see the news clip below). To me this is
> not a big issue, however it reminds of what happen few years ago when
> I was a student in Cape Town. One of the churches around Cape Town
> received a sponsorship from SAB (South African Breweries) to build a
> Pre-School or Creche. Inside this well built Pre-School there is an
> Advertisement for SAB. This really shocked me, and since I was not a
> member there was nothing I could say.
> To me this seemed like double standards or counter-productive, in one
> hand we are preaching Christ to the little children and on the other
> we are introducing SAB to them at an early age.
> What is the view of members on this issue? Does the Spirit of prophecy
> say anything about sponsorship from such organisation? Does it matter
> really matter where the money comes from?
> What about grants from the Government?
>
> >Coca-Cola award
> >A student at Southwestern Adventist University will receive a $20,000
> scholarship from the Coca-Cola Foundation. One scholarship has >been
> awarded for every independent college in Texas. Ironically, many
> Adventists object to Coca-Cola because of its caffine content.
>
> The King is even at the door!
>
> Jeremiah
>
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
>
> Create a list for FRIENDS & FAMILY...
> ...and YOU can WIN $100 to Amazon.com. For details, go to
> http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> The King is even at the door!
>
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:39:31 +0200
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@xxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: RE: Welcome
I find your illustration very interesting and not amusing for it is true.
Crusades are for people who are hungry and unemployed. Our church seems to
specialise in reaching or targeting those who stay in shacks or temporal
shelters. What about the rich and affluent how do we reach them?
Should we run an anti-rich programme for them or how to be unemployed?
Remember the Young rich ruler who approached Christ? He was told to get rid
of his possession and follow Christ. Difficult, yes even more difficult
than to reach poor people.
What is the solution? The problem is that crusades are done by
specialists, and yet I read from the Bible that everyone is supposed to be a
witness. Let all our members be trained and encouraged to evangelise.
Let us find new ways of sharing our faith. We should find it easy to talk
about what Christ is doing in our lives before we can tell people what he
wants from their lives.
"When they see your good deeds they will glorify Him".
Maybe we do not need more crusades, we need more Crusaders!
Peace!
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Modise <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [sa-sda] Welcome
>From: "Andrew Modise" <ModisMA1@telkom.co.za>
>
>Sam,
>
>The solution to the riddle is to find out why people don't attend the
>crusades. The problem is that our ministry is often times not needs
>based. For example, out tendency is to identify "unentered areas" and
>put up a tent for a crusade. This is most of the time not based on a
>proper needs analysis, in your field it would be a due dilligence
>report. Some of the people you invite to the crusade would like to
>attend the but have more pressing needs like putting food on the table
>for their children. I can imagine that some of them are perhaps
>wondering why we are not following the example of Jesus. Christ
>addressed the basic needs of people first. Perhaps we need to think of
>anti-poverty, anti-crime, counselling, skills development and job
>creation programmes before we talk of crusades. Our needs are not
>necessarily other people's needs. The art of fishing depends critically
>on understanding the environment, behaviour and the type of fish you are
>trying to catch, that will inform you as to what kind of bait to use and
>when to throw the fishing rod into the water. We need to see human
>beings (God's children) first before we can see targets for baptism
>(statistics)!!!!
>
>The beauty of the above is that it fully complements "seek ye first the
>kingdom of God and all else will be added unto you". More of that later
>if you are interested!!!!
>
>God bless
>
>Andrew Modise
>
>
>>>> "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu> 08/10/99 04:07PM >>>
>From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
>
>Sam,
>What do you mean by inflatrating their churches?
>You mean you will pretend to be their member? Sing as they sing, dance
>as they do?
>Won't it be living a lie? fooling them by prentending to be one of
>them?
>Here is the great philosophical question: Is it right to fool people
>for their own good?
>
>Peace!
>
>Jeremiah
>
>>>> Sam Mthimkulu <Sammth@tnt.ac.za> 08/10 2:59 AM >>>
>Greetings
>
>I would like to appreciate the opportunity given to us to share
>whatever
>news or opinions we have without censorship.
>Introducing Samuel Molefe Mthunzi Mthimkhulu,known as Sam,i grew up in
>Tornado NW and moved to Pretoria in '90 and studied at TNT,I am
>currently working at the same company from 95 till today working as
>the
>Internal Auditor.i am unmarried(soon my status will change pray for
>me)my interest are evangelism,social discussion.
>I want to share something with you that is bothering me for we have
>crusades and people do not attend i was thinking what about
>infiltration
>to this churches?i hope you will help.
>May God bless you
>
>Mthunzi
>
>
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
>----------------------------
>
>ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The King is even at the door!
>
>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
>GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,
> NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR.
>Apply online today! http://www.onelist.com/ad/nextcard1
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The King is even at the door!
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 04:36:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Sponsorship?
Dawn,
I disagree with you on the point of accepting donations from 'shady'
companies, for as much as Nkosazana Zuma didn't what the cigarettes
companies to sponsor sporting events I do not think that we should
also accept such funds. When SAB donates funds to the church it is
not because they love the idea of soul wining or the promotion of
Christian ideals, No! on the contrary they are against those ideals.
For SAB/cigarettes companies to sponsor any events their main aim is
promoting their product. Which one is the organization that is
fighting to reduce customers of the SAB/Cigarettes companies? The
church! These companies know exactly what they are doing. They spent
millions on ads, and they are always fighting among themselves to
sponsor prominent events in order to increase their sales. If I were
the marketing manager for one of these companies I was just going to
sponsor churches, for here I would be fighting the enemy head-on. It
is very difficult to fight the one who is your main sponsor.
There is a statement from SOP on this topic but I just couldn't find
it last night, could someone help me with it.
Having said that I must say that I fully agree with the rest of your
presentation, our focus indeed needs to be on evangelism and we must
not waste time on petty issues. And you were right on target when you
stated that the reason why we even start to think about getting
sponsor from the 'shady' companies; is because of the unfaithfulness
of the members. This is the issue that I would like us to focus on,
for this is the root of the problem. If the tree that is in our yard
is producing bad fruits, it does not help this tree to go out and buy
fruits from some 'shady' trees. We need to address the question why
is the tree in our yard producing bad fruits.
Why are the people not supporting the church with their tithes and
offerings? Is it because they do not know about tithes and offerings?
Is it because they do not trust the church officials? Is because we
do not preach the stewardship sermons as often as we should? I think
the answer lies somewhere else. It is because we do not have the
relationship with our Lord. So it does not matter how much we can try
to make the people guilty with those regular once a year stewardship
sermons, it never works. Sometimes we try to appeal to their sense of
pity and even that does not help.
And that’s because we do not have the relationship with Jesus, we do
have a relationship with another god or goddess called materialism.
Most of our stewardship sermons address the fruits and not the root
of the problem, and that's why even our solutions are temporal. Yes,
we can paint apples with the peach colour and from a distance they
might look like peaches, yet they remain apples.
Bill Graham says that the last thing that God converts in a man is
his pocket, I disagree. When we accept Jesus as the Lord and savior,
He has to become the Lord of everything that we own including our
pockets.
So what is the problems with our sermons? We assume that the people
have repented and all they need is just to give more, No! The people
do not know the Lord. If they knew Him and trusted Him, stewardship
will come naturally.
After Zaccheus met the Lord, his pocket did not wait until the first
stewardship sermon, his pocket repented immediately. Jesus made the
rich young ruler understand that if he is to repent his pocket must
repent too.
There is a beautiful story that I heard some time ago. It is about a
man who is about to be baptized and the deacon realized that he was
still having his wallet in his pocket, so the deacon offered hold the
man's wallet as he gets into the water. The man responded by saying
no, I want my wallet to be baptized too. I guess that's what most us
need!
What makes things worse in our churches is that those who worship
this god of materialism are highly respect and more often rewarded
with positions. Yes, because he drives a BMW it means that the Lord
is blessing him! And the result is that many of members are trying to
get these BMW's so that they can arrive at a position of honor.
How can they pay R4000.00 towards a BMW every month and still be able
to return the faithful second tithe. That's impossible! We are
expecting too much from the 'poor' people. We need to understand that
some of these BMW are not blessings but curses. (NB there is nothing
wrong with driving BMW's, this is just an illustration)
In these last days there are three things that we need in our
churches Repentance, Repentance, and Repentance!
Lord help us all!
(You will excuse me, I didn’t enough time re-read this documents, so
there might be a lot of mistakes)
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
--- Vice-Rector for Academic Administration <vradmit@hbc.ac.za>
wrote:
> From: "Vice-Rector for Academic Administration" <vradmit@hbc.ac.za>
>
> >To me this seemed like double standards or counter-productive, in
> one hand
> we are preaching Christ to the little children and on the other we
> are
> introducing SAB to them at an early age.
> >What is the view of members on this issue? Does the Spirit of
> prophecy say
> anything about sponsorship from such organisation? Does it matter
> really
> matter where the money comes from?
> >What about grants from the Government?
>
>
> With both the grant from Coca-Cola and the sponsorship from the SAB
> I don't
> feel it should be an issue, simply because one doesn't approve of a
> product
> or one of the ingredients in a product. I feel that our focus
> should rather
> be on spreading God's good news than on caffiene and beer. Many
> sponsors
> require an ad for their product to be on prominent display, as one
> of the
> conditions of the sponsorship. The fact that SAB is advertised
> does not
> mean all the kids will go out and buy beer - this remains the
> responsibility
> of the parents and educators in showing them the right way and
> helping them
> make right choices in life.
>
> Perhaps if our church members were more generous in giving money
> towards
> these projects there would be no need to seek sponsorship from
> so-called
> "shady" companies. I think that this is a problem that needs to be
> addressed, instead of worrying about what company donates funds
> that help
> spread the Word.
>
> This is the end time! We do not have time to focus on trivial
> matters or
> get distracted from our task! Our energies should be directed
> heavenwards!
> God can use many means to help us spread His good news - we need to
> focus on
> that and get His work done!
>
> Dawn
>
>
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:36:59 +0200
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: RE: Welcome
** Proprietary **
** Reply Requested When Convenient **
Fellow Adventists,
With regard to Sam's concern, I guess we need to address more than just
what we would like to admit. I don't believe that fruits are the main
objective of evangelism, nor attendance for that matter. The point made
about the need based evangelism is good but not when it comes to
preaching. Need based evangelism should not be means to an end nor an
end on its own. I don't believe that we need to do something - either
good or bad - to attract people to God. All we do we do because we care
about the people. This will help us do this even when the climate and
environment are not conducive for the exercise. We will be able to do
this " in season and out of season" - as instructed. The problem will
be failing to keep up with the demands should it not work according to
our wishes. But if true love never dies we will be as patient and
loving as though they are one with us.
When we have a crusade it should be to inform whoever has come about
the gospel. Whether attractive or dull the Spirit has a way of making
His intentions feasible. I remember when I was still a young boy in my
home church we were about to have a crusade and the church members were
discussing the plans for the crusade. One of them asked if the
feasibility study and a research was made to make sure that the
community will be receptive of the gospel. God's business is
foolishness to those who believe solely in human strategies and
intelligence because His means of doing things are not our means of
painting the town red.
I do share empathy with Sam when having prepared all and are convinced
that God is to be know in your territory you find that people are not
there to know about this God. May be you have prayed about this issue
and have been assured by whatever that you should go ahead and make Him
known yet the whole thing becomes a disaster. Remember Noah, he
preached for years, the only converts he had were animals called on the
ship by God. Sam, you have to live your Christ-like life loving and
caring for all around you for the mere fact that you love them. Preach
to them because you just want to warn them about the forthcoming danger
and let them know about the love of God that surpasses all
understanding. Beyond that do not worry - even you did not go out of
your way looking for God but He, Himself sought out for you. He will do
all He can to get as many of His sheep - only if you're willing to be
the Shepard.
Lungani
>>> "Andrew Modish" <Metooism@telkom.co.za> 08/11 4:47 PM >>>
From: "Andrew Modish" <Metooism@telkom.co.za>
Sam,
The solution to the riddle is to find out why people don't attend the
crusades. The problem is that our ministry is often times not needs
based. For example, out tendency is to identify "unbettered areas" and
put up a tent for a crusade. This is most of the time not based on a
proper needs analysis, in your field it would be a due diligence
report. Some of the people you invite to the crusade would like to
attend the but have more pressing needs like putting food on the table
for their children. I can imagine that some of them are perhaps
wondering why we are not following the example of Jesus. Christ
addressed the basic needs of people first. Perhaps we need to think of
anti-poverty, anti-crime, counselling, skills development and job
creation programmes before we talk of crusades. Our needs are not
necessarily other people's needs. The art of fishing depends
critically
on understanding the environment, behaviour and the type of fish you
are
trying to catch, that will inform you as to what kind of bait to use
and
when to throw the fishing rod into the water. We need to see human
beings (God's children) first before we can see targets for baptism
(statistics)!!!!
The beauty of the above is that it fully complements "seek ye first
the
kingdom of God and all else will be added unto you". More of that
later
if you are interested!!!!
God bless
Andrew Modish
>>> "Maced. Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu> 08/10/99 04:07PM >>>
From: "Maced. Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
Sam,
What do you mean by infiltrating their churches?
You mean you will pretend to be their member? Sing as they sing, dance
as they do?
Won't it be living a lie? fooling them by pretending to be one of
them?
Here is the great philosophical question: Is it right to fool people
for their own good?
Peace!
Jeremiah
>>> Sam Mthimkulu <Sammth@tnt.ac.za> 08/10 2:59 AM >>>
Greetings
I would like to appreciate the opportunity given to us to share
whatever
news or opinions we have without censorship.
Introducing Samuel Molefe Mthunzi Mthimkhulu,known as Sam,i grew up in
Tornado NW and moved to Pretoria in '90 and studied at TNT,I am
currently working at the same company from 95 till today working as
the
Internal Auditor.i am unmarried(soon my status will change pray for
me)my interest are evangelism,social discussion.
I want to share something with you that is bothering me for we have
crusades and people do not attend i was thinking what about
infiltration
to this churches?i hope you will help.
May God bless you
Mthunzi
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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:49:12 +0200
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@xxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: RE: Sponsorship?
** Proprietary **
** Reply Requested When Convenient **
The problem is still confirmed by the saying - He who has the purse
holds the strings. You can take the money but remember that it comes
with demands. God has better means or raising money that soliciting for
money from drug lords and brothel owners. Yes, He loves the sinner who
gives - especially if he has no ulterior motives. Better if he is a
converted sinner.
Lungani
>>> Joseph Musandiwa <JosephM@liw.denel.co.za> 08/13 10:28 AM >>>
From: Joseph Musandiwa <JosephM@liw.denel.co.za>
The issue of sponsoships particularly from "questionable companies" is
a
complicated one. In fact it
reminds me of one of the prominent SDA professionals, who came to our
college some years ago as a guest speaker. Amongst other topics, he
addressed the topic ''Why was he working for SAB'. Without knowing
exactly who SAB were, I immediately concluded he was in a
justification
campaign. However, after looking at who the SAB are in terms of other
companies they own, one had to pause and rethink.
The bible teaches us that all the 'monies' in this world, that is
gold
and silver belongs to God. However, we must be cautious and know
where
to draw the line. I am tempted to think that, If a weaker brother
goes
gambling at Sun City, and probably wins R 1 mil, must the church
accept tithe from such money. Well, I do nt know.
If I may be in the meeting to decide, whether to accept money from
SAB,
I think I can urge the church
to take it, but refuse to advertise their beer products.
TJMusandiwa
> ----------
> From: Mashudu Ravhengani[SMTP:Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu]
> Reply To: sa-sda@onelist.com
> Sent: 12 August 1999 03:55
> To: sa-sda@onelist.com
> Subject: [sa-sda] Sponsorship?
>
> From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@umdnj.edu>
>
> Greetings,
>
> In one of our news items yesterday there was an item about the
> scholarship from Coca-Cola (see the news clip below). To me this is
> not a big issue, however it reminds of what happen few years ago
when
> I was a student in Cape Town. One of the churches around Cape Town
> received a sponsorship from SAB (South African Breweries) to build a
> Pre-School or Creche. Inside this well built Pre-School there is an
> Advertisement for SAB. This really shocked me, and since I was not a
> member there was nothing I could say.
> To me this seemed like double standards or counter-productive, in
one
> hand we are preaching Christ to the little children and on the other
> we are introducing SAB to them at an early age.
> What is the view of members on this issue? Does the Spirit of
prophecy
> say anything about sponsorship from such organisation? Does it
matter
> really matter where the money comes from?
> What about grants from the Government?
>
> >Coca-Cola award
> >A student at Southwestern Adventist University will receive a
$20,000
> scholarship from the Coca-Cola Foundation. One scholarship has >been
> awarded for every independent college in Texas. Ironically, many
> Adventists object to Coca-Cola because of its caffeine content.
>
> The King is even at the door!
>
> Jeremiah
>
>
>
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