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There are 8 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. RE: TC-TOC Merger
From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@xxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
2. TC-TOC Merger
From: Fairbridge Dlamini <dlaminif@xxxx.xx.xxx
3. Re: TC-TOC Merger
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
4. Re: TC-TOC Merger
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
5. Cape Conference Clips
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
6. Re: TC-TOC Merger
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
7. Re: TC-TOC Merger
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
8. Fw: ANN Bulletin: Sept 21, 1999
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:01:49 +0200
From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@xxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: RE: TC-TOC Merger
Tshivhenga,
I tend to agree with your and Jeremiah's sentiments with regard to the
merger.
When we (myself, Jeremiah, Andrew and a few others on this list) were
students in Cape Town we lived very close to an Adventist church. During one
of our first visits there it became clear that we were a hindrance to a free
worship atmosphere for some of the members of the church. We even overheard
one of them ask a fellow member: "Why don't they go to their own church?".
To allude to Jongimpi's race illustration, we seem not to be running the
same race.
Talk of a merger raises fear of integration among some of our brethren, and
we have seen how integration seems to lead to 'take-overs'. Claim Street in
Johannesburg is a case in point. Integration in our church seems to be that
period between when the first black family moves into a church and when the
last white family moves out.
We can debate this until we are all blue in the face, but we will not make
headway whilst the hearts remain unchanged. As was said in an earlier
discussion, the heart of the problem is the problem of the heart. In the
meantime, while we argue with each other and point fingers at each other,
the world around us is dying without Christ. We are like an army which
spends the majority of its time either shining their armor or fighting one
another. Let's get things in perspective, people. There is a war to fight.
I firmly believe that our unity, as opposed to our merger, is inevitable so
long as we submit totally to the Lordship of Christ, and the implications of
His Lordship.
Lo! He comes!
Ramodise
-----Original Message-----
From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group [mailto:TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 09:01
To: 'sa-sda@onelist.com'
Subject: RE: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group <TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za>
Hi Friends!
My personal opinion is that the merger of two conferences i.e. TOC and TC is
a nice to have (Maybe I am saying this because I am a Lay man and may not
benefit materially from the merger). Why don't we forget about it and
preach the soon return of our Lord.
I ponder, what if Abram and Lot did not seperate and each go their own way,
some of us would not been marveling the care and love of the good Lord when
He went out of His way to snatch out Lot from Sodom.
Of course we have to care about our fellow brothers from the other
Conference (TC), but I feel let them go ahead and serve their Lord the way
that satisfies their calling.
In one meeting an Afrikaans brother made a coment in Afrikaans saying " So
lank die Kaffer Hemel toe gaan, dan gaan ek nie" meaning (As long as a black
is going to Heaven I am not going there) I hope he was just making a joke,
but that is what he said.
He is vevn at the doo.
-----Original Message-----
From: Masabatha Online [mailto:masabatha@yahoo.com]
Sent: 21 September 1999 05:58
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
In the beginning of this discussion I asked whether we really need
the merger. I would like to suggest that we don't need the merger. As
Tankiso said, what we need is unity. We can be united even though we
have not merged, and we can be merged and still be divided. The
merger, or the structural merger, as it is called, is the merging of
structures not the uniting of people. The concept of the structural
merger has no spiritual connotations whereas unity is spiritual,
Jesus prayed that we might be one. So, merger cannot be used to weigh
the spirituality of the people/conference. Let us not fall into the
trap of using the two words interchangeable. For unity does not
necessitate the merging of the structures, actually the structural
merger might be of less importance if we are united.
I liked Jongimpi's illustration about running the race. It is
interesting that I find the illustration applicable to my local
church. The majority of our members (from both black and white
conferences) are not running the race. The failure to merge/racism is
not the only test of Christianity (if it is the test at all). Many of
those who are not racist are busy with other sins. What I hear Pastor
Papu to be saying is that the time is coming when the true remnant of
all races will come together. I hope we will not wait until them.
It is disappointing that in the Kwa-natal-ofs conference they are
still having separate camp meetings. However, we need to understand
that culture plays a big part in our worship. Unity does not dissolve
the cultures, that's why we talk about unity in diversity. I do not
consider myself to be a racist, in fact some of the best Adventist
Christians that I know happen to the white people. But somehow I just
do not enjoy the white church services as much as I enjoy the black
church services. I guess there is something wrong with me. What will
happen if I am forced (or left without a choice but) to attend a
white church service [before I allow the Lord to changes my sinful
attitude]? I might just leave the church.
May be that's what happened at Johannesburg central church. May be
that's what happened in England and Zimbabwe. May that's what is
happening in Canada.
What can we learn from all of this?
He is still working on me, making me what I ought to be!
The King is coming!
Jeremiah
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:03:26 +0200
From: Fairbridge Dlamini <dlaminif@xxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: TC-TOC Merger
I have noted with great interest the discussion on the TC-TOC merger. Coming
from Durban I have an experience of how a structural merger as opposed to
unity can be frustrating. In essence the KwaZulu-Natal Free State conference
exists on paper (and of course during the session).
It is encouraging to me that the TOC has decided to focus on what is the
calling of the church i.e. the preaching of the gospel. Maybe sometimes we
lose sight of this, but the world needs to hear the good news of salvation,
they need to hear about Jesus. As has been mentioned countless times already
in this discussion, I believe also that if we serve the Christ who prayed
for church unity and we are truly His church certainly when He comes He
shall find a united church.
Even as we grapple with these issues, come Lord Jesus.
F. Mduduzi Dlamini
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:34:06 +0200
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: TC-TOC Merger
Hi there
I am not sure when you were at UCT but I would like to say that there has
been a great deal of change going on in the Cape Town Churches I think you
refer to and I would be keen to hear if the UCT students still all feel the
same way as you did then.
I had lunch with about 40 UCT students two Sabbath's ago at Mowbray Church
and there was a very positive atmoshere amongst those I chatted to.
God bless
Shirley
-----Original Message-----
From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@smm.setpoint.co.za>
To: 'sa-sda@onelist.com' <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 11:38
Subject: RE: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@smm.setpoint.co.za>
>
>Tshivhenga,
>
>I tend to agree with your and Jeremiah's sentiments with regard to the
>merger.
>
>When we (myself, Jeremiah, Andrew and a few others on this list) were
>students in Cape Town we lived very close to an Adventist church. During
one
>of our first visits there it became clear that we were a hindrance to a
free
>worship atmosphere for some of the members of the church. We even overheard
>one of them ask a fellow member: "Why don't they go to their own church?".
>To allude to Jongimpi's race illustration, we seem not to be running the
>same race.
>
>Talk of a merger raises fear of integration among some of our brethren, and
>we have seen how integration seems to lead to 'take-overs'. Claim Street in
>Johannesburg is a case in point. Integration in our church seems to be that
>period between when the first black family moves into a church and when the
>last white family moves out.
>
>We can debate this until we are all blue in the face, but we will not make
>headway whilst the hearts remain unchanged. As was said in an earlier
>discussion, the heart of the problem is the problem of the heart. In the
>meantime, while we argue with each other and point fingers at each other,
>the world around us is dying without Christ. We are like an army which
>spends the majority of its time either shining their armor or fighting one
>another. Let's get things in perspective, people. There is a war to fight.
>
>I firmly believe that our unity, as opposed to our merger, is inevitable so
>long as we submit totally to the Lordship of Christ, and the implications
of
>His Lordship.
>
>Lo! He comes!
>
>Ramodise
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group [mailto:TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 09:01
>To: 'sa-sda@onelist.com'
>Subject: RE: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>
>
>From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group <TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za>
>
>Hi Friends!
>
>My personal opinion is that the merger of two conferences i.e. TOC and TC
is
>a nice to have (Maybe I am saying this because I am a Lay man and may not
>benefit materially from the merger). Why don't we forget about it and
>preach the soon return of our Lord.
>
>I ponder, what if Abram and Lot did not seperate and each go their own way,
>some of us would not been marveling the care and love of the good Lord when
>He went out of His way to snatch out Lot from Sodom.
>
>Of course we have to care about our fellow brothers from the other
>Conference (TC), but I feel let them go ahead and serve their Lord the way
>that satisfies their calling.
>
>In one meeting an Afrikaans brother made a coment in Afrikaans saying " So
>lank die Kaffer Hemel toe gaan, dan gaan ek nie" meaning (As long as a
black
>is going to Heaven I am not going there) I hope he was just making a joke,
>but that is what he said.
>
>He is vevn at the doo.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Masabatha Online [mailto:masabatha@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 21 September 1999 05:58
>To: sa-sda@onelist.com
>Subject: Re: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>
>
>From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
>
>
>In the beginning of this discussion I asked whether we really need
>the merger. I would like to suggest that we don't need the merger. As
>Tankiso said, what we need is unity. We can be united even though we
>have not merged, and we can be merged and still be divided. The
>merger, or the structural merger, as it is called, is the merging of
>structures not the uniting of people. The concept of the structural
>merger has no spiritual connotations whereas unity is spiritual,
>Jesus prayed that we might be one. So, merger cannot be used to weigh
>the spirituality of the people/conference. Let us not fall into the
>trap of using the two words interchangeable. For unity does not
>necessitate the merging of the structures, actually the structural
>merger might be of less importance if we are united.
>
>I liked Jongimpi's illustration about running the race. It is
>interesting that I find the illustration applicable to my local
>church. The majority of our members (from both black and white
>conferences) are not running the race. The failure to merge/racism is
>not the only test of Christianity (if it is the test at all). Many of
>those who are not racist are busy with other sins. What I hear Pastor
>Papu to be saying is that the time is coming when the true remnant of
>all races will come together. I hope we will not wait until them.
>
>It is disappointing that in the Kwa-natal-ofs conference they are
>still having separate camp meetings. However, we need to understand
>that culture plays a big part in our worship. Unity does not dissolve
>the cultures, that's why we talk about unity in diversity. I do not
>consider myself to be a racist, in fact some of the best Adventist
>Christians that I know happen to the white people. But somehow I just
>do not enjoy the white church services as much as I enjoy the black
>church services. I guess there is something wrong with me. What will
>happen if I am forced (or left without a choice but) to attend a
>white church service [before I allow the Lord to changes my sinful
>attitude]? I might just leave the church.
>May be that's what happened at Johannesburg central church. May be
>that's what happened in England and Zimbabwe. May that's what is
>happening in Canada.
>What can we learn from all of this?
>
>He is still working on me, making me what I ought to be!
>
>The King is coming!
>
>Jeremiah
>
>
>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:53:22 +0200
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: TC-TOC Merger
Dear Tshivhenga
I really become disturbed when I hear comments being made by other people as
you mention. There has been so much hurt and pain caused and I just hope and
pray that we can all grow past this but such statements made by this person
perpetuate the negative experiences of the past.
God bless
Shirley
-----Original Message-----
From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group <TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za>
To: 'sa-sda@onelist.com' <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 09:07
Subject: RE: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group <TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za>
>
>Hi Friends!
>
>My personal opinion is that the merger of two conferences i.e. TOC and TC
is
>a nice to have (Maybe I am saying this because I am a Lay man and may not
>benefit materially from the merger). Why don't we forget about it and
>preach the soon return of our Lord.
>
>I ponder, what if Abram and Lot did not seperate and each go their own way,
>some of us would not been marveling the care and love of the good Lord when
>He went out of His way to snatch out Lot from Sodom.
>
>Of course we have to care about our fellow brothers from the other
>Conference (TC), but I feel let them go ahead and serve their Lord the way
>that satisfies their calling.
>
>In one meeting an Afrikaans brother made a coment in Afrikaans saying " So
>lank die Kaffer Hemel toe gaan, dan gaan ek nie" meaning (As long as a
black
>is going to Heaven I am not going there) I hope he was just making a joke,
>but that is what he said.
>
>He is vevn at the doo.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Masabatha Online [mailto:masabatha@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 21 September 1999 05:58
>To: sa-sda@onelist.com
>Subject: Re: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>
>
>From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
>
>
>In the beginning of this discussion I asked whether we really need
>the merger. I would like to suggest that we don't need the merger. As
>Tankiso said, what we need is unity. We can be united even though we
>have not merged, and we can be merged and still be divided. The
>merger, or the structural merger, as it is called, is the merging of
>structures not the uniting of people. The concept of the structural
>merger has no spiritual connotations whereas unity is spiritual,
>Jesus prayed that we might be one. So, merger cannot be used to weigh
>the spirituality of the people/conference. Let us not fall into the
>trap of using the two words interchangeable. For unity does not
>necessitate the merging of the structures, actually the structural
>merger might be of less importance if we are united.
>
>I liked Jongimpi's illustration about running the race. It is
>interesting that I find the illustration applicable to my local
>church. The majority of our members (from both black and white
>conferences) are not running the race. The failure to merge/racism is
>not the only test of Christianity (if it is the test at all). Many of
>those who are not racist are busy with other sins. What I hear Pastor
>Papu to be saying is that the time is coming when the true remnant of
>all races will come together. I hope we will not wait until them.
>
>It is disappointing that in the Kwa-natal-ofs conference they are
>still having separate camp meetings. However, we need to understand
>that culture plays a big part in our worship. Unity does not dissolve
>the cultures, that's why we talk about unity in diversity. I do not
>consider myself to be a racist, in fact some of the best Adventist
>Christians that I know happen to the white people. But somehow I just
>do not enjoy the white church services as much as I enjoy the black
>church services. I guess there is something wrong with me. What will
>happen if I am forced (or left without a choice but) to attend a
>white church service [before I allow the Lord to changes my sinful
>attitude]? I might just leave the church.
>May be that's what happened at Johannesburg central church. May be
>that's what happened in England and Zimbabwe. May that's what is
>happening in Canada.
>What can we learn from all of this?
>
>He is still working on me, making me what I ought to be!
>
>The King is coming!
>
>Jeremiah
>
>
>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:52:00 +0200
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Cape Conference Clips
DEURNAGDIENS - TYGERBERG
SDASA CHORALE PERFORMS WITH SYDNEY CHAMBER ORCHESTRA
UPDATE FROM TAIWAN ON THE EARTHQUAKE
DEURNAGDIENS - TYGERBERG (Madeleine Cloete)
Ons by Tygerberg kerk gaan op die 1ste Oktober 'n deurnagdiens hou. Daar gaan 'n pragtige "slide show" gemaak wat in Tygerberg kerk en Parow Kerk adverteer word. Francios Louw het..
SDASA CHORALE PERFORMS WITH SYDNEY CHAMBER ORCHESTRA
The SDASA Chorale was invited by the Australian High Commissioner in South Africa to perform for the diplomatic corps in Pretoria along with the Sydney Chamber Orchestra. Such a positive impression was made that the Korean High Commissioner is planning to have them tour Korea with the orchestra next year.
UPDATE FROM TAIWAN ON THE EARTHQUAKE (Willa Potgieter)
This is just to update you on how we all are here in Taiwan after the
earthquake this morning.
Well, shaking, sure we all are, but all the missionaries of San Yu schools
are well. No one got hurt. Praise the Lord. We do not know about our
College in Natou, since there is no comunication and the roads are block as
well. We are all very worried about them, because that is where the main
quake happenend. So please keep them in your prayers. As soon as I know
how they are I will let you know. You could also pray for the people of
Natou, Tapei City and Hualien. They was hit really badly and over 800
peole is known to be dead up untill this very moment. Buildings collapse
and then there is also a Typhoon just outside of Taiwan, that cause heavy
rains in Tapei. the poor people was just shaken out of their homes and now
they sit in the rain as well.
The rest of Taiwan is okay, altough we are all shaking because the whole of
Taiwan was awaken by the shakes this morning. (Some people however slept
through all it - I wonder how they could???)
Please excuse all my mistakes, I did not sleep must for the last 24 hours
or maybe even more.
As soon as I know more about the SDA College I will update, but for now,
please keep praying for them as well as the whole of Taiwan as they expect
more shakes/quakes and wavetides to come in. Pray that those who did not
have a change to hear about Jesus, will somehow hear it from the angles if
more peole have to die. I think this is what make me feel so sad. THe
fact that so many people died today and it is almost sure that more than
half of them don't even know Jesus.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shirley Allen
Cape Conference
Director of Youth, Children's Ministries, Sabbath School, Personal Ministries and Women's Ministries
PO Box 279
Somerset West
7129
Telephone: 021 852 1140
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:31:22 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: TC-TOC Merger
Shirley,
I am not surprised (or disturbed) that we have racist and tribalists in the church as much as I am not surprised that there are thieves (only 33% of SDA's do not steal from GOD) and liars in the church. A person who gossips can just as well be a racist or a murderer. The problem that we have is that we think that there are some sins that are bigger than others. Sin, whether it is a white liar or mass murder, before God it is the same. There is an underlying feeling in some of our discussions that racism is the worst of all sins. There is no such a thing as a worst sins of all, all sins are deadly. We all need Jesus, without Jesus we might try to be as political correct as we could yet we remain sinners.
I would like to emphasize that the merger can not and should not be used as a test of Christianity. Unity is the test (whatever that means) of Christianity. When we are united I believe there will be a great outpouring of the Holy Spirit and we will not merge conferences instead we will start new conferences.
We are all sick and we desperately need the Doctor. It is only strange that some patients think that they are better than others.
Unfortunately many of us are not aware that we are sick.
Heaven help us all!
Jeremiah
>>> "Shirley Allen" <chmin@hbc.ac.za> 09/21 6:53 AM >>>
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@hbc.ac.za>
Dear Tshivhenga
I really become disturbed when I hear comments being made by other people as
you mention. There has been so much hurt and pain caused and I just hope and
pray that we can all grow past this but such statements made by this person
perpetuate the negative experiences of the past.
God bless
Shirley
-----Original Message-----
From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group <TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za>
To: 'sa-sda@onelist.com' <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 09:07
Subject: RE: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group <TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za>
>
>Hi Friends!
>
>My personal opinion is that the merger of two conferences i.e. TOC and TC
is
>a nice to have (Maybe I am saying this because I am a Lay man and may not
>benefit materially from the merger). Why don't we forget about it and
>preach the soon return of our Lord.
>
>I ponder, what if Abram and Lot did not seperate and each go their own way,
>some of us would not been marveling the care and love of the good Lord when
>He went out of His way to snatch out Lot from Sodom.
>
>Of course we have to care about our fellow brothers from the other
>Conference (TC), but I feel let them go ahead and serve their Lord the way
>that satisfies their calling.
>
>In one meeting an Afrikaans brother made a coment in Afrikaans saying " So
>lank die Kaffer Hemel toe gaan, dan gaan ek nie" meaning (As long as a
black
>is going to Heaven I am not going there) I hope he was just making a joke,
>but that is what he said.
>
>He is vevn at the doo.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Masabatha Online [mailto:masabatha@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 21 September 1999 05:58
>To: sa-sda@onelist.com
>Subject: Re: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>
>
>From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
>
>
>In the beginning of this discussion I asked whether we really need
>the merger. I would like to suggest that we don't need the merger. As
>Tankiso said, what we need is unity. We can be united even though we
>have not merged, and we can be merged and still be divided. The
>merger, or the structural merger, as it is called, is the merging of
>structures not the uniting of people. The concept of the structural
>merger has no spiritual connotations whereas unity is spiritual,
>Jesus prayed that we might be one. So, merger cannot be used to weigh
>the spirituality of the people/conference. Let us not fall into the
>trap of using the two words interchangeable. For unity does not
>necessitate the merging of the structures, actually the structural
>merger might be of less importance if we are united.
>
>I liked Jongimpi's illustration about running the race. It is
>interesting that I find the illustration applicable to my local
>church. The majority of our members (from both black and white
>conferences) are not running the race. The failure to merge/racism is
>not the only test of Christianity (if it is the test at all). Many of
>those who are not racist are busy with other sins. What I hear Pastor
>Papu to be saying is that the time is coming when the true remnant of
>all races will come together. I hope we will not wait until them.
>
>It is disappointing that in the Kwa-natal-ofs conference they are
>still having separate camp meetings. However, we need to understand
>that culture plays a big part in our worship. Unity does not dissolve
>the cultures, that's why we talk about unity in diversity. I do not
>consider myself to be a racist, in fact some of the best Adventist
>Christians that I know happen to the white people. But somehow I just
>do not enjoy the white church services as much as I enjoy the black
>church services. I guess there is something wrong with me. What will
>happen if I am forced (or left without a choice but) to attend a
>white church service [before I allow the Lord to changes my sinful
>attitude]? I might just leave the church.
>May be that's what happened at Johannesburg central church. May be
>that's what happened in England and Zimbabwe. May that's what is
>happening in Canada.
>What can we learn from all of this?
>
>He is still working on me, making me what I ought to be!
>
>The King is coming!
>
>Jeremiah
>
>
>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:16:13 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <Ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: TC-TOC Merger
Shirley,
I personally appreciate the ministry that you have rendered and continue to render UCT students. When I saw you few years ago at Phillip Saunders I realized that there was a strong bonding between you and the students. Keep up the good work.
What we might need to understand is that many things have changed since the late 80's when we were at UCT. I do remember an instance at Mowbray church when a senior member of the church approached me after church and politely told me that some of the people of my colour go to churches in the township. I understood the message.
You will need to remember than the year before we came to UCT most of the black students did not stay in the residences; they were accommodated in Athlone.
Now we live in the new South Africa and things have changed. In those days black youth were more dangerous than they are now, the police were always after them; they were a threat to state security.
In those days the students didn't want to be a part of Mowbray church, even though we later decided to have a combined Friday meetings with the Mowbray youth.
Not only have the attitudes of members of the Mowbray church changed; even the student's attitudes have changed.
Thank God that all of that is behide us.
The King is even at the door!
Jeremiah
>>> "Shirley Allen" <chmin@hbc.ac.za> 09/21 6:34 AM >>>
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@hbc.ac.za>
Hi there
I am not sure when you were at UCT but I would like to say that there has
been a great deal of change going on in the Cape Town Churches I think you
refer to and I would be keen to hear if the UCT students still all feel the
same way as you did then.
I had lunch with about 40 UCT students two Sabbath's ago at Mowbray Church
and there was a very positive atmoshere amongst those I chatted to.
God bless
Shirley
-----Original Message-----
From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@smm.setpoint.co.za>
To: 'sa-sda@onelist.com' <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 11:38
Subject: RE: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@smm.setpoint.co.za>
>
>Tshivhenga,
>
>I tend to agree with your and Jeremiah's sentiments with regard to the
>merger.
>
>When we (myself, Jeremiah, Andrew and a few others on this list) were
>students in Cape Town we lived very close to an Adventist church. During
one
>of our first visits there it became clear that we were a hindrance to a
free
>worship atmosphere for some of the members of the church. We even overheard
>one of them ask a fellow member: "Why don't they go to their own church?".
>To allude to Jongimpi's race illustration, we seem not to be running the
>same race.
>
>Talk of a merger raises fear of integration among some of our brethren, and
>we have seen how integration seems to lead to 'take-overs'. Claim Street in
>Johannesburg is a case in point. Integration in our church seems to be that
>period between when the first black family moves into a church and when the
>last white family moves out.
>
>We can debate this until we are all blue in the face, but we will not make
>headway whilst the hearts remain unchanged. As was said in an earlier
>discussion, the heart of the problem is the problem of the heart. In the
>meantime, while we argue with each other and point fingers at each other,
>the world around us is dying without Christ. We are like an army which
>spends the majority of its time either shining their armor or fighting one
>another. Let's get things in perspective, people. There is a war to fight.
>
>I firmly believe that our unity, as opposed to our merger, is inevitable so
>long as we submit totally to the Lordship of Christ, and the implications
of
>His Lordship.
>
>Lo! He comes!
>
>Ramodise
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group [mailto:TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 09:01
>To: 'sa-sda@onelist.com'
>Subject: RE: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>
>
>From: Tshivhenga Takalani * Group <TakalaniT@Transnet.co.za>
>
>Hi Friends!
>
>My personal opinion is that the merger of two conferences i.e. TOC and TC
is
>a nice to have (Maybe I am saying this because I am a Lay man and may not
>benefit materially from the merger). Why don't we forget about it and
>preach the soon return of our Lord.
>
>I ponder, what if Abram and Lot did not seperate and each go their own way,
>some of us would not been marveling the care and love of the good Lord when
>He went out of His way to snatch out Lot from Sodom.
>
>Of course we have to care about our fellow brothers from the other
>Conference (TC), but I feel let them go ahead and serve their Lord the way
>that satisfies their calling.
>
>In one meeting an Afrikaans brother made a coment in Afrikaans saying " So
>lank die Kaffer Hemel toe gaan, dan gaan ek nie" meaning (As long as a
black
>is going to Heaven I am not going there) I hope he was just making a joke,
>but that is what he said.
>
>He is vevn at the doo.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Masabatha Online [mailto:masabatha@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 21 September 1999 05:58
>To: sa-sda@onelist.com
>Subject: Re: [sa-sda] TC-TOC Merger
>
>
>From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@yahoo.com>
>
>
>In the beginning of this discussion I asked whether we really need
>the merger. I would like to suggest that we don't need the merger. As
>Tankiso said, what we need is unity. We can be united even though we
>have not merged, and we can be merged and still be divided. The
>merger, or the structural merger, as it is called, is the merging of
>structures not the uniting of people. The concept of the structural
>merger has no spiritual connotations whereas unity is spiritual,
>Jesus prayed that we might be one. So, merger cannot be used to weigh
>the spirituality of the people/conference. Let us not fall into the
>trap of using the two words interchangeable. For unity does not
>necessitate the merging of the structures, actually the structural
>merger might be of less importance if we are united.
>
>I liked Jongimpi's illustration about running the race. It is
>interesting that I find the illustration applicable to my local
>church. The majority of our members (from both black and white
>conferences) are not running the race. The failure to merge/racism is
>not the only test of Christianity (if it is the test at all). Many of
>those who are not racist are busy with other sins. What I hear Pastor
>Papu to be saying is that the time is coming when the true remnant of
>all races will come together. I hope we will not wait until them.
>
>It is disappointing that in the Kwa-natal-ofs conference they are
>still having separate camp meetings. However, we need to understand
>that culture plays a big part in our worship. Unity does not dissolve
>the cultures, that's why we talk about unity in diversity. I do not
>consider myself to be a racist, in fact some of the best Adventist
>Christians that I know happen to the white people. But somehow I just
>do not enjoy the white church services as much as I enjoy the black
>church services. I guess there is something wrong with me. What will
>happen if I am forced (or left without a choice but) to attend a
>white church service [before I allow the Lord to changes my sinful
>attitude]? I might just leave the church.
>May be that's what happened at Johannesburg central church. May be
>that's what happened in England and Zimbabwe. May that's what is
>happening in Canada.
>What can we learn from all of this?
>
>He is still working on me, making me what I ought to be!
>
>The King is coming!
>
>Jeremiah
>
>
>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>>The King is even at the door!
>====
>To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
>To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
>To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
The King is even at the door!
====
To contribute to the discussions: send your mails to sa-sda@onelist.com
To subscribe: send a blank email sa-sda-subscribe@onelist.com
To unsubscribe: send a blank email to sa-sda-unsubscribe@onelist.com
_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:11:05 +0200
From: "Shirley Allen" <chmin@xxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Fw: ANN Bulletin: Sept 21, 1999
-----Original Message-----
From: adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org
<adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org>
To: adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org
<adventistnews@lists.gc.adventist.org>
Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 01:51
Subject: ANN Bulletin: Sept 21, 1999
ANN Bulletin
Adventist News Network
Seventh-day Adventist Church World Headquarters
September 21, 1999
------
In This Issue:
* Taiwan Earthquake: Adventists Aid Survivors
* Polish Parliament Votes Ban on Tobacco Advertizing
* Media Feature Adventist Physician for Smoking Cessation Research
* Adventist Church Leaders Visit Peruvian Congress
* Seventh-day Adventist Language Institute Celebrates 30th Anniversary
in Korea
* Pacific Union College Ranked Number One in California
------
Taiwan Earthquake: Adventists Aid Survivors
Taipei, Taiwan .... [ANN]
Survivors of the massive 7.6 magnitude earthquake in Taiwan September
20 received immediate aid from the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Taiwan
Adventist Hospital in Taipei began treating casualties immediately
after the quake hit just before 2 a.m., reports James Wu, spokesman for
the Church in Taiwan.
"The hospital is located in a residential area of Taipei, and a
twelve-story apartment block nearby collapsed," says Wu. "Tragically,
the first eight stories had totally collapsed, and we were treating
people from the ninth floor. The phone system and the power are both
out, and we are operating on emergency power. There is extensive damage
all around, however the hospital suffered only some minor cracks and is
fully functional. Patients have been arriving continually and we are
doing our best to provide medical treatment and any other help we can
give."
Early reports indicate that at least 1,500 have lost their lives in
this the worst earthquake to hit Taiwan in the past 50 years. To date,
no Adventists are known to be among those lost or injured. The
Adventist college and high school located near the epicenter are
reported safe with no casualties.
The Adventist Development and Relief Agency (ADRA) is already on the
scene and making initial assessments for providing aid. Personnel and
assistance from ADRA China and ADRA Asia are ready to respond to the
needs of those hit by this disaster, according to ADRA representatives
in the area.
"We are immensely saddened at the news of this tragic disaster," says
P.D. Chun, leader of the Adventist Church for the Northern Asia-Pacific
region. "We are in contact with local Adventist leaders in Taiwan and
have asked them to convey our great concern to those affected by this
tragedy and to assure them of our prayers and practical support."
[Jonathan Gallagher]
Polish Parliament Votes Ban on Tobacco Advertizing
Warsaw, Poland .... [ANN]
The Polish parliament on September 10 voted to ban all tobacco
advertising and sponsorship by the end of 2001. Though the law has yet
to be approved by parliament's upper house, it is a step forward in the
Polish society of heavy smokers.
"Poland has a very high death rate from smoking-related diseases," says
Roman Chalupka, communication director for the Adventist Church in
Poland. "We believe that this step taken by our parliament will help
create a better future for the Polish people and give more
opportunities for the Adventist Church to assist many in helping them
to stop smoking."
The Seventh-day Adventist Church has campaigned for decades against
smoking and has produced a number of smoking cessation initiatives.
"The Church's Five-day Plan to Stop Smoking is well-known throughout
Poland and has already helped thousands of people to quit this
life-threatening habit," comments Chalupka.
A number of anti-smoking campaigners have been active in the country,
including
Professor Witold Zatonski, director of the Institute of Oncology in
Warsaw, who closely co-operated with the Seventh-day Adventist Church's
smoking cessation program. Zatonski's efforts led directly to the
current legislative action.
"I am delighted to know of this anti-smoking initiative," says Ray
Dabrowski, communication director for the Adventist World Church and
also a Polish national. "It is gratifying to recognize the government's
concern for the health of the ordinary people rather than gaining
revenue through tobacco taxes. This parallels the Church's persective
on the issue."
International tobacco companies have targeted Poland and other eastern
European countries in recent years and though all advertisements on
television are prohibited, the companies have practically covered the
whole country with huge billboard advertisements, increasing the number
of smokers, especially among the young people. One quarter of the
population (of over 39 million) are heavy smokers. [ANN/ANR Staff with
Roman Chalupka]
Media Feature Adventist Physician for Smoking Cessation Research
Loma Linda, California .... [ANN]
{On a personal note:If my memory serves me correctly Ida Foster from South
Africa is Dr Ferry's secretary and is on this mailing list. Tell us more
Ida! SMA}
Seventh-day Adventist physician researcher Dr. Linda Ferry is to be
featured on the NBC Today show on September 27- just one of a number of
interviews resulting from her lead article in the latest issue of the
Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).
The NBC report, slated to air during the 8-9 a.m. time slot entitled
"Forever Young," will promote the idea that it's never too late to quit
smoking and will share therapies developed by Ferry who has received
national attention by her groundbreaking work in the field of smoking
cessation.
Ferry researched the use of the drug bupropion (Zyban), which is the
first non-nicotine treatment approved by the FDA for smoking cessation.
Her discovery and the subsequent release of this drug have helped
hundreds of thousands of people quit smoking since it was made
available in 1997. She recently received the 1999 North American Medal
Award for Tobacco Control from the World Health Organization.
The JAMA article co-authored by Ferry revealed that the majority of
medical students in US medical schools are not well trained to help
their patients stop smoking.
The article begins: "Tobacco use, the leading cause of preventable
death and disability in the United States, accounts for nearly half a
million premature deaths per year. Although 70% of smokers visit a
physician each year, most are not advised or assisted in an attempt to
quit. A 1991 survey showed that only 21% of practicing physicians felt
that their formal medical training prepared them to help patients stop
smoking."
Loma Linda University School of Medicine, a Seventh-day Adventist
institution, has one of the most intensive smoking cessation training
programs in the country for medical students and hopes to provide
curriculum development materials to address this issue. Adventists have
been at the forefront in providing smoking cessation programs for over
50 years.
Ferry is also involved in authoring two books. One, to be released by
Random House/Clarkson N. Potter Publishers in November, is entitled,
The How to Quit Smoking and Not Gain Weight Cookbook.
"Up to 40% of women smokers are afraid to quit smoking because of
adding on a few extra pound," says Ferry. "I hope that this book's
common sense explanation of what causes the weight gain will help many
smokers break free from the addiction to tobacco."
The second book, planned for release next year, is currently titled
Burning Desires: Women and Their Nicotine Affairs. This book will
investigate smoking's impact upon women and their health.
For more information on smoking cessation, contact the Foundation
established by Ferry at www.findhelp.com. [Jonathan Gallagher]
Adventist Church Leaders Visit Peruvian Congress
Lima, Peru .... [ANN]
On September 3, the First Vice-president of the Peruvian Congress,
Ricardo Marcenaro, received a delegation from the Seventh-day Adventist
Church led by Dr. John Graz, director of the Public Affairs and
Religious Liberty department.
During the visit, Marcenaro expressed appreciation for the Church's
work in defending religious freedom and said he was aware of the
contribution made in the areas of education and social assistance.
Graz explained that the Adventist Church defends the right of any
citizen of the world, as stated in article 18 of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights, "the freedom to choose, to have or not to
have a religion and the right to choose which religion"
The Adventist delegation was composed of Dr. John Graz; Siloé Almeida,
director of the Adventist Church's religious liberty department in
South America; Melchor Ferreyra Castillo, religious liberty director
for the Adventist Church in Peru; and Adventist Congressmen of the
Peruvian Republic Jose Gabriel Sanches, Ediberto Díaz and Cristoval
Villax Sante. [Siloé Almeida]
Seventh-day Adventist Language Institute Celebrates 30th Anniversary in
Korea
Seoul, Korea ... [ANN]
Participants from around the world joined the Seventh-day Adventist
Language Institute in Seoul, Korea, early last week for the 30th
Anniversary Ceremony of the Institute.
"What an exciting day!" exclaimed Vernon Parmenter, director of
Adventist Volunteer Services which provides the teachers for the
Institute. "It is with much pleasure that I congratulate the Institute
for the work that it has accomplished over this period of time.
Thousands of people in the community have been given the opportunity to
learn English. For some this has meant new opportunities in life and
for others it has given them a hope-the hope of eternal life."
Congratulatory speeches were given by many, including the first three
missionary directors of the institute, Dr. D. Hubbard, Dr. M. Bascom,
and D. Scofield. P.D. Chun, president of the Northern Asia-Pacific
Division of Seventh-day Adventists, and S.W. Han, president of the
Korean Union Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, also delivered
speeches to celebrate the occasion. The president of the Korean
Educational Institutes, S.J. Moon, was present, as well as a
congressman of the Korean government, S.W. Noh, who commended the
Institute for its contribution to the globalization and modernization
of the country of Korea.
The Seventh-day Adventist Language Institute in Seoul currently teaches
both English and Japanese. With 160 overseas teachers and 23 branches,
the Institute provides assistance to some 16,000 students. [Tadaomi
Shinmyo/Heather Brannan]
Pacific Union College Ranked Number One in California
Angwin, California ... [ANN]
For the sixth straight year, the national magazine U.S. News & World
Report ranked Pacific Union College (PUC), a Seventh-day Adventist
educational institution, as the number one regional liberal arts
college in all of California. PUC also earned a top ten spot among
regional liberal arts colleges in all 14 Western states.
In addition to high overall standings, PUC fared well in specific
areas. U.S. News rated PUC in its top five for "Best Values" among
liberal arts colleges in the Western United States-a ranking based on
the ratio of quality to price. The magazine also listed PUC as among
the top ten most "ethnically diverse" campuses within the western
United States.
For this year's "Best Colleges" report, U.S. News employed their most
thorough approach to date. Overall rankings were based on academic
quality, faculty-to-student ratio, faculty resources, graduation rates,
financial aid, student diversity, alumni giving, and pre-professional
programs. PUC scored well in all of these categories, especially
academic quality, faculty-to-student ratio, and student diversity.
Located in Angwin, California, PUC is a four-year Christian college and
enrolls approximately 1,800 students each year. [Mike Mennard]
12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, Maryland, USA 20904-6600.
(301) 680-6306.
CompuServe address: 74532,2611. News Bulletin is a review of news and
information issued by the Communication Department from the Seventh-day
Adventist Church World Headquarters and released as part of the service
of Adventist News Network. It is being made available primarily to
religious news editors. Our news includes dispatches from the Church's
international offices and the world headquarters. The information
provided in the Bulletin may be reproduced without permission providing
that the source "Adventist News Network" is acknowledged. For back
issues of this news bulletin, visit our website at www.adventist.org.
ANN Staff: Ray Dabrowski, director; Jonathan Gallagher, news director;
Heather Brannan, editorial assistant. Copyright Adventist News Network
1999.
-----
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