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There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. Re: Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be lost!
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@xxxxx.xxxx
2. RE: Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be l ost!
From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@xxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be lost!
Dear friends,
I think the question that Lungani raised is a tip of a broader
problem that we have in Christendom, and again I would like to thank
Jongimpi for addressing the core of this problem. I think it is
broader in the sense that Lungani is talking about someone, who
admits that they love a particular sin, however the majority of those
who have this problem do not admit that they have the problem. I
think they fool everybody around them to the point that they even
fool themselves, unfortunately they think they can even fool God, but
he still says I never knew you. The person that Lungani is talking
about, since he admits that he loves a particular sin, I will think
that he is in a better position than the one who doesn't (as much as
cold is better than lukewarm)
I would like to believe many and I dare say the majority of those who
claim to be Christians are suffering from this problem. I guess not
many will agree with me on this one, but I will try to substantiate.
I believe that the majority of Christians do not know who Christ is,
they have heard about him, but they do not know him personally.
We live in an age where Christianity has been sensationalized; even
that cross of shame is decorated to the point that we fail to see its
real meaning.
Can you believe there are some so-called Christians who persecuted
Jews to pay revenge on what they did to Jesus?
The majority of those who claim to be Christians do not know the man
called Jesus
If we knew him we would either reject him all together or are lives
we going to be changed
Today we have people who claim to be Christians, yet they can't
humble themselves before their fellow man - Compare that with Christ
who was the creator and yet who humble himself to his creatures
Today we have people who claim to be Christians, yet they have people
in the same church that they wont speak to - Compare that with Christ
who not only washes the feet of Judas but also eats with him from
same plate
Today we have people who claim to be Christians, yet their neighbors
are without food and they don't care - Compare that with Christ, the
Bible says when he saw the crowds he was moved with compassion.
Today the church is full of people who hate their fellow
brothers/Sisters - Jesus calls them murderers (the spirit of the
law).
Today the church is full racists/tribalists - Last week a member of a
racist church, killed a member of the minority group, and I am told
this is the mission of the church.
In the Adventist church I have heard people referring to others as
Makwerekwere and treating those from the North as if they were
sub-humans. The other day at the SAUC session one of the delegates
stood up to proudly state (in an intimidating manner) that he is the
member of certain radical political grouping in the country.
Do such people know Jesus? NO!
How can someone love Christ and still fight for power and position in
the church, I have seen this in the local church, In the conference
nominating committee, in the union session, see my two papers on this
topic at Masabatha On-line.
How can someone love Christ and still remain proud - we have people
who are so proud that they won't speak to the uneducated, and I guess
they were not going to speak to Jesus, since he was also not
uneducated.
How can someone love Christ and not tell someone about Him - all
those who were healed by Jesus went and told somebody about it.
How can someone love Christ and still remain a backbiter/gossiper -
such have a good supply of those.
How can someone love Christ and not stand for the right or stand
against the wrong - the church is full of spaghetti Christians.
Everybody ought to know who Jesus is!
Jeremiah
--- Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za> wrote:
> From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
>
> Lungani
>
> I have heard this before. "My problem is just this one sin. If I
> can
> overcome this one, I will be okay". Is it possible. Let's look at
> it.
>
> The issue here is, how did this person stop doing the other sin?
> Was it
> because of abiding in God or just because he did not love them
> (that is
> sins). If God has led him to conquer all other sins why is he not
> helping
> him on this one? I am sure the answer is, this person has never
> been
> helped by God. He stopped doing the other sin(or so he thinks)
> because he
> did not love doing thosel things.
>
> The fact of the matter is, as James puts it, if you break one
> commandment
> you have broken all. Think about it. Usually a persistent sin is
> an
> evidence that one is a slave to sin in general. YOu may not be a
> smoker
> and that does not mean you are a christian. There are many so
> called good
> people who have no Christ. The fact that you have no Christ can
> reveal
> itself in just one act that is persistent.
>
> For example if you continue hating people or one person for that
> matter. I
> mean really hate, and this has been going on for years, and you
> love it.
> John says you do not know God, period. To love to be in sin, to
> be
> comfortable in sin, to enjoy the fact that you are in sin, that to
> me sounds
> like a habitual sinner, and the Bible is clear, as qouted earlier,
> you are
> without Christ. Peter denied christ three times, but after that he
> could
> not rest for a moment until the day he was affirmed by Christ.
>
> The Priestly ministry of Christ is not for people who love sin and
> therefore
> seeks not forgiveness for it, it is for those who know that they
> should not
> sin, those who are abiding in Christ.
>
> Lungani I would say, such a person needs a Saviour. For to me that
> is one
> definition of an unpardonable sin, the sin that you do not want to
> confess
> because you love doing it.
>
> Happy Sabbath
>
> JOngimpi
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lungani Mfeka <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
> To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
> Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 11:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Bad works have nothing to do with causing us
> to be
> lost!
>
>
> From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
>
> Dear fellow Christians,
>
> I understand all you've said about falling and dying in Christ. My
> problem is with loving a certain sin and still believing that you
> also
> love and wish to develop a relationship with God, is that possible
> and
> doable? Is is possible to love God yet keep on committing the same
> sin
> - not by mistake but because you love it?
>
> Lungani
>
__________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:10:49 +0200
From: Ramo Mekoa <ramom@xxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: RE: Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be l ost!
Daniel,
As Morris Venden says, our works have no contributory factor on whether or
not we are saved. Only Christ's work on the cross makes it possible to be
saved, and our individual response to THAT work determines whether or not we
are saved. Our works are just an indication of who is boss in your life -
Christ or the other chap.
He (Christ, not the other chap) is really at the door!!
Ramodise
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Dlongolo [mailto:daniel@4gl.co.za]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 17:28
To: sa-sda@onelist.com
Cc: Thulani Kunene; Nkanyiso
Subject: [sa-sda] Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be
lost!
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
Brethren,
I came across the following interesting statement when I was
reading Pastor Morris Venden's book "95 Thesis On Righteousness By Faith"
"Our good works have nothing to do with CAUSING us to be saved, and our
bad works have nothing to do with CAUSING us to be lost."
I'm sorry that I cannot remember the page number, I can check it out.
What do you say about this statement? How do our works (good or bad)
relate to our salvation?
Keep Looking Up!
Daniel Bafana Dlongolo
4GL SYSTEMS
E-mail: daniel@4gl.co.za
Phone : +27 11 476 2224 (w)
Cell : +27 83 289 9975
South Africa
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