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There are 3 messages in this issue.
Topics in today's digest:
1. Re: New member
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
2. New Contributions
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@xxxxx.xxxx
3. Re: Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be lost!
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@xxxx.xx.xxx
_______________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:20:44 -0400
From: "Mashudu Ravhengani" <ravhenmj@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: Re: New member
Welcome Nick,
You are part of the family,
He is at the door!
Jeremiah
>>> "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@corp.anglogold.com> 08/20 6:31 AM >>>
From: "Bangisi, Nikelo" <NBangisi@corp.anglogold.com>
Hi all,
I am a new contributor to your discussions. May I take this opportunity to
thank everyone who contributes to the discussions that keep coming up. It is
very stimulating to read all the answers and contributions made by all of
you. I also hope to have a meaningful contribution in the future.
God bless you all
Nick
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 06:37:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Masabatha Online <masabatha@xxxxx.xxxx
Subject: New Contributions
Friends,
We have just received some major contributions from two of our
members, because of the size of the files I am not going to post them
on this list, however, they are posted on the Masabatha web site. If
you have no access to the Web please inform me (masabatha@yahoo.com)
I will send as attachments to you.
The First two are inspiring messages from Tankiso Letseli,
Sermon: Character:
http://www.tagnet.org/masabatha/character.html
Sermon: CONFRONTING GIGANTIC CHALLENGES IN LIFE :
http://www.tagnet.org/masabatha/challenges.html
The Second one is thought provoking paper from Weiers Coetser
Paper: Race Matters in the Seventh-day Adventist Church: Towards a
Messianic Vision
http://www.tagnet.org/masabatha/race.html
I am sure there will be a lot of discussion on this paper,
Enjoy your Sabat!
Go tell it to the mountains!
MJ Ravhengani
SA-SDA/Masabatha Online
www.masabatha.org
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:04:41 +0200
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@xxxx.xx.xxx
Subject: Re: Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be lost!
Lungani
I have heard this before. "My problem is just this one sin. If I can
overcome this one, I will be okay". Is it possible. Let's look at it.
The issue here is, how did this person stop doing the other sin? Was it
because of abiding in God or just because he did not love them (that is
sins). If God has led him to conquer all other sins why is he not helping
him on this one? I am sure the answer is, this person has never been
helped by God. He stopped doing the other sin(or so he thinks) because he
did not love doing thosel things.
The fact of the matter is, as James puts it, if you break one commandment
you have broken all. Think about it. Usually a persistent sin is an
evidence that one is a slave to sin in general. YOu may not be a smoker
and that does not mean you are a christian. There are many so called good
people who have no Christ. The fact that you have no Christ can reveal
itself in just one act that is persistent.
For example if you continue hating people or one person for that matter. I
mean really hate, and this has been going on for years, and you love it.
John says you do not know God, period. To love to be in sin, to be
comfortable in sin, to enjoy the fact that you are in sin, that to me sounds
like a habitual sinner, and the Bible is clear, as qouted earlier, you are
without Christ. Peter denied christ three times, but after that he could
not rest for a moment until the day he was affirmed by Christ.
The Priestly ministry of Christ is not for people who love sin and therefore
seeks not forgiveness for it, it is for those who know that they should not
sin, those who are abiding in Christ.
Lungani I would say, such a person needs a Saviour. For to me that is one
definition of an unpardonable sin, the sin that you do not want to confess
because you love doing it.
Happy Sabbath
JOngimpi
-----Original Message-----
From: Lungani Mfeka <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to be
lost!
From: "Lungani Mfeka" <MfekaL@telkom.co.za>
Dear fellow Christians,
I understand all you've said about falling and dying in Christ. My
problem is with loving a certain sin and still believing that you also
love and wish to develop a relationship with God, is that possible and
doable? Is is possible to love God yet keep on committing the same sin
- not by mistake but because you love it?
Lungani
>>> Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za> 08/20 9:15 AM >>>
From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
Dan&Jeremiah
I do appreciate the attempt made by Jeremiah to explain the difference
between falling and making mistakes as a Christian. I would like to
make
another attempt in trying to explain the issue further. (Remember we
are all
making an attempt, we are all students no one is a teacher).
I read the following from Sons and Daughters pg. 54, "To go without
stumbling, we must have an assurance that a hand all powerful will hold
us
and an infinite pity will be exercised toward us if we fall."
1John 2:1, is the foundation for the above, "I write these things so
that
you do not sin, but if any man sin we have an advocate with the
Father..."
A Christian can fall but a nonchristian can never fall. It is only
the
person who is walking that runs the risk of falling and not the one who
is
sleeping or sitting. Peter fell because he was walking the other
disciples never fell, not because they were good, but because they were
safe
in the boat. The advocate, or Jesus as our Priest is there for all
the
committed Christian who are doing the miracle by walking to lift them
up if
they fall.
In 1 John 3:6, I think John is saying that he who abides in Christ
cannot
sin continuously, to me this is not just falling in water,but actually
swimming in water and enjoying it too. (to use Peter's example). For
further
reading see (Eph. 2:3; 4:17)
To answer you Dan, Falling can be part of growth for a Christian.
This
was David's point in Ps. 51 -13, Peter never forgot that he denied
Christ
for the rest of his life, He learnt a lesson he never forgot. To
abide in
Christ is to be his child. No parent would throw his child because he
fell
as he was learning to walk. Character, remember, is a trend of one' s
life
and not the occasional misdeeds or good deeds, (said by E White
somewhere).
When we die one day, the only question God will ask is, was the person
my
child when he died, and not did he pay the tithe before he died? But
do not
forget the illustration of the fruit.
Having said all this, to sin remains a possibility and not a necessity.
For
us not to fall daily we must learn to die daily - I think Jeremiah made
this
point clearly.
Jongimpi
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
To: sa-sda@onelist.com <sa-sda@onelist.com>
Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [sa-sda] Bad works have nothing to do with causing us to
be
lost!
>From: Daniel Dlongolo <daniel@4gl.co.za>
>
>
>Jongimpi
>
>Thank you for your enlightening response. I now see how works relate
to
>salvation. You wrote:
>
>"The fruit is the unmistakable evidence of abiding...
>But the branch does not boast about the fruit, it is the owner who
brags,
>or shows off. Producing the fruit is not mandatory, though sometimes
we
>make it so, it is also not optional, as some of us think, it is
>inevitable. Boasting about something that is inevitable is not a
sure
>sign of intelligence."
>
>I agree with your statement but could you please clarify this: Does
it
>mean that we fall daily because we are not abiding in Him?
>
>God bless,
>
>Daniel
>E-mail: daniel@4gl.co.za
>Phone : +27 11 476 2224 (w)
>Cell : +27 83 289 9975
>
>
>On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Jongimpi Papu wrote:
>
>> From: Jongimpi Papu <j.d.papu@mweb.co.za>
>>
>> Daniel
>> You have raised a very serious and important subject. I accept the
>> statement that we are justified by faith but judged by works. The
Bible
>> makes it clear that God will bring our works to judgement, (Ecc.
12:7,
Matt.
>> 25:31-45, etc. When God judges the works He wants to see if they
are
works
>> of faith or not. For it is faith that justifies and not works.
But
>> remember faith without works is dead, (James 2:14-26) . For me to
see
your
>> faith I have to look at your works, but I cannot judge, for it is
God
alone
>> who can examinie the works to see if they result from a genuine
faith or
>> not.
>>
>> The group in Matthew 7:21 shows the Judge a list of works they
performed
,
>> but he was not impressed, for faith was lacking. For in the same
passage,
>> He says, they did not do His will, and Paul says "without faith it
is
>> impossible to please Him, or to do his will". But those in Mathew
25,
are
>> surprised when they are told the things they have done. You see
the
>> difference, Dan? Like the Pharisee and the publican, you do not
present
>> your works to God but your sinful heart and your willingness to
change.
>>
>> John puts it simply. He says "without me you can do nothing"
Unless
the
>> branch abides in the tree, it cannot produce the fruit. The fruit
is
the
>> unmistakable evidence of abiding... But the branch does not boast
about
the
>> fruit, it is the owner who brags, or shows off. Producing the
fruit is
not
>> mandatory, though sometimes we make it so, it is also not optional,
as
some
>> of us think, it is inevitable. Boasting about something that is
inevitable
>> is not a sure sign of intelligence.
>>
>> That's it Dan, it is your relationship not your works, but you know
what
I
>> mean......
>>
>> Jongimpi
>
>
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