Editor's note: We do not know of any comments taken out of context. If you can provide some, we would appreciate knowing about them.
Entered May 14, 1999

Praise the Lord!! I was baptized into Christ in the Charismatic movement 20 years ago in a place called Melodyland across from Disneyland. Have been in the Adventist Church for 6 years and in brief want to give my observation: We have become so fearful of the charismatic movement that we will go to any cost to stay with the formal format of worship. I believe that most adventists have never been to charismatic church and do not understand that even our contemorary services are tame compared to them. Jesus said,"No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new." Why doesn't he take it straightway? Because the old is better than the new. Let us pray that we will open our eyes to the new.
Entered March 26, 1999

I agree that long sermons accomplish little. I also agree that long prayers are not necessary I disagree on shouting: Did you ever hear "The Holy Rollers"? They sound like rabble rousers; disturbers of the peace. Guitars in the worship service? I don't consider it a classical instrument, although it can be used as one. I didn't see a comment on modern music. Did she not condemn the beating of drums, as she put it.

Editor's comment: As far as I know, Ellen White makes no comment condemning the BEATING of drums. In Selected Messages Vol 2 pages 36, 37 (quoted in full below), she warns of a future apostacy which will use drums. However, that apostacy will also use singing. To say her comments rule out drums would also mean they rule out singing also.

As for your comment on modern music, check the article in the Magazine section of this website about music in the early SDA Church. People like James White and Uriah Smith actually took the modern music of their day and sang it in church -- with religious words replacing the secular words. So tunes like "Dixie" and "Swanee River" (the modern music of the day) were frequently played in Adventist Church services.
Entered Feb 26, 1999

I'm so happy to read EGW's counsel and observations regarding worship. I have been commenting on the insipid worship characterized by a canned program week after week. Truthfully I've stayed away from church many times because I'm not blessed or challenged by the activities. I'm going to share this with everyone I can.
Entered Feb 24, 1999

You are using only an isolated portion of EGW's approval on worship. There are several thousands comments on worship by EGW and you yet have not exploited the balance that EGW gives. It is not "cricket" to use only the comments that you agree with.

Editor's note: Many of Ellen White's other worship comments we are familiar with. This material is material few of us know about. And certainly, I do not feel the things she writes here disagree with other material she has written.
Entered Feb 24, 1999

WOW!!!!.......Fantastic!!!!! Our Church in Adrian Michigan is just starting to advances into all of these areas. We are the first Lay led church in Michigan in many years and are having the Spiritual experience or our lives!!!! Adam Case will be helping us during the summer months. He gave us many of the worship ideas we are currently putting into practice.
Entered Feb 22, 1999

I have just read the Ellen White worship guide. It was excellent and it would be very nice if the pastors would do this. A testimony sharing time would be great. It bring the congregation closer to each other and be uplifting to all. Music is so wonderful in the service. I personally am learning the guitar now & so is my daughter. She also plays drums :) I don't think shouting is necessary. I personally think a time of taking requests for paryer, praise & sharing, music, is all very important in the church service. It's important to have time to let the Holy Spirit move in the congregation.
Entered Feb 21, 1999

What you have here is great! My Great-great grandparents Mary and Joseph Ritner Carnahan became Adventists in 1851 or 52 in Manhattan, Kansas. I wonder what music was sung or played then! They moved to the Pacific Northwest in 1858 and 2-3 of their children were in the first year of classes taught at WWC. Several years ago we visited Union College church services. A student-Blue Grass group played several songs as I recall. The pews were filled with elderly people. Were they insulted? No indeed. The church was filled with the tap-tap of feet as they (probably recalling their youth) reacted to the music. I grew up in Napa Valley in California. It was at a Yountville campmeeting that mechanical music was first used in an SDA meeting--Organ, cymbals, etc. GC president at the time wrote that the musicians were satisfactory, but certainly not as acceptable to heavenly listeners as natural instruments (voice). Very interesting, and teaches us that even on road to heaven the pilgrims are varied.
Entered Feb 19, 1999

Re: Ellen White's writing that formal worship is evil. There are seven instances of the phrase "formal worship" on the CDRom. I believe that careful note of the context will show that she was not talking about formal worship services but the attitude of the individual worshipper.

Editor's comment: I suppose it is a matter of intepretation how an individual interprets "formal worship." You suggest "careful note of the context," so we include the entire context here for people to make their assessment about "formal worship" being evil.

This quote is found under the heading "Formality in Worship," Testimonies for the Church, volume 9, pages 143-144. "In their efforts to reach the people, the Lord's messengers are not to follow the ways of the world. In the meetings that are held, they are not to depend on worldly singers and theatrical display to awaken an interest. How can those who have no interest in the word of God, who have never read His word with a sincere desire to understand its truths, be expected to sing with the spirit and the understanding? How can their hearts be in harmony with the words of sacred song? How can the heavenly choir join in music that is only a form?

"The evil of formal worship cannot be too strongly depicted, but no words can properly set forth the deep blessedness of genuine worship. When human beings sing with the spirit and the understanding, heavenly musicians take up the strain and join in the song of thanksgiving. He who has bestowed upon us all the gifts that enable us to be workers together with God, expects His servants to cultivate their voices so that they can speak and sing in a way that all can understand. It is not loud singing that is needed, but clear intonation, correct pronunciation, and distinct utterance. Let all take time to cultivate the voice so that God's praise can be sung in clear, soft tones, not with harshness and shrillness that offend the ear. The ability to sing is the gift of God; let it be used to His glory."
Entered Feb 16, 1999

Please help me to learn to bring up specific books and letters in the E G White site, as I am new at using it. I feel that you must be taking some things out of contents. If I am wrong I want to know.

Editor's comment: I trust you will find the comments were not taken out of context. I do not know how to look up specific books and letters. However, you can find them by putting words from that book into quote marks and the search engine will give you the reference. Usually it is very fast. However, it can be slow. I tried to search for the words "the evil of formal worship" which come from Testimonies volume 9. It took so long I had to abandon the search. If you have difficulty using the E G White website, send an email to egw@aubranch.egwestate.andrews.edu. They have a reputation of being very quick with their reponses.
Entered Feb 15, 1999

AMEN AND AMEN!!!

Entered Feb 15, 1999

I think you need to read everything that Ellen White says about noise and shouting in worship services. Read Selected Messages Vol. 2 p. 35 and 36. It gives an entirely different picture. One statement on page 36 says "the Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise." If you do, you will come to an entirely different conclusion. Mildred White --millie@c-zone.net

Editor's comment: I don't see any incompatiblity between the two statements. My references are about an individual shouting as the only voice. Your references are about noise coming from many sources at the same time. Thinking about it, I suppose it was not out of place to have shouting in church in an era before public address systems.
Entered Feb 15, 1999

This is from: Selected Messages Vol 2 pg 36, 37: "Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted.” It is impossible to estimate too largely the work that the Lord will accomplish through His proposed vessels in carrying out His mind and purpose. The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated, There will be SHOUTING, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit NEVER reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, enobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din of noise, to have a carnival, this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working.” Last January the Lord showed me that erroneous theories and methods would be brought into our camp meetings, and that the history of the past would be repeated.... The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with such a confusion of noise and multitude of sounds as passed before me last January. Satan works amid the din of confusion of such music, which, properly conducted, would be a praise and glory to God. He makes its effect like the poison sting of the serpent..”

Editor's comment: What was happening in Indiana was that all these things were happening at once. If we are to use this statement to rule our shouting (or drums), we must also rule out music because it is included in the same list with the same status.
Entered Feb 15, 1999

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